Sidepodcast // All for F1 and F1 for all

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You decide // The Japanese Grand Prix incident under video review

Published by Mr. C

Yesterday I made a comment suggesting that Hamilton's erratic driving behind the safety car was responsible for the accident between Vettel and Webber. I based this on the post-race response from Vettel, and also from what we'd witnessed on TV.

It was difficult to prove though, given the little amount of information we had. Today nelsong came up with the following video on YouTube (you'll have to be quick though, before FOM rip it down):

[update: the video is now missing from YouTube, above is the same clip on Dailymotion]

You may well ask what on earth Lewis was doing all the way over that side of the track, you may well ask why he was driving so slowly (don't say warming his brakes, because that involves very hash movements, not a gradual reduction in speed).

Keep in mind the following article (40.7) from the FIA's Sporting Regulations 2007:

Any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

Love to hear your comments on this one. Thanks again to nelsong and also to smoker893 for posting the clip.




  • Well, here's what Hamilton said in the press conference:

    When we were behind the second safety car, I was constantly on the radio to my engineers to tell the Red Bull team to get Mark (Webber) to make a little more of a gap because I couldn't go any faster because the pace car was in front of me, so I was trying to keep the distance with him and then I'd move over because I couldn't see Mark and then he'd just appear alongside me, so he kept out-braking himself.

    I felt something was going to happen, and I guess my instincts told me right.

  • the rules state:

    All competing cars must then form up in line behind the safety car no more than 5 car lengths apart.

    there is NO minimum distance specified. if the Lewis can't handle that, he shouldn't be leading that pack.

    i'd agree that LH may have caused that accident through his own paranoia, but I say he still caused it.

  • those safety car rules are for dry conditions, in the wet they would be abit lax on the ruling.

    Hamilton was one car length behind the safety car before the corner, he being the leader can choose to lay off to get abit of a gap with the pace car if he chooses, the cars behind know the leader can change the pace whenever he chooses which is why especially in the wet they should have kept a larger gap as they were not racing when behind the safety car! if it was coming in and the race about to be restarted for sure try and get as close as possible

  • that is a fair point bud, duly noted.

  • It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that Lewis caused that accident. The F1 cars have very fine braking systems; and things have to be kept in control (neither it should be too cold nor running hot). So, just to keep the system from functioning properly, it is necessary to accelerate and brake to have enough heat in the system. In rainly conditions, it becomes even more trickier.

    Now, there's also one more point that people are missing here. The safety car lights were still ON. So, what on earth is the rush for everyone? If it had been told that safety car would be in that lap, then it makes all the more sense to go closer.

    So, don't just blindly blame it on Hamilton because of your prejudices.

  • it's not being blind ibulb, to ask for comments is it?

    you raise a fine point about the lights. my eyes still tell me that's an odd place to be on the road though.

  • @bud... Does it say in the rule book that those rules are only for dry conditions? I dont think so.

    Webber didn't outbrake himself, he was off the throttle completely waiting for Hamilton to retake his position behind the SC. Hamilton is always outspoken, blaming others and making stupid comments. The comment about Webber was one of those occasions.

    Is it Hamiltons Fault? No, it was Vettel's, the car behind has a duty stay clear of the car in front.

    It even looked like Vettel accelerated into Webber, but that could just be a trick of the eye since Webber is off the gas at that time.

  • Its hard to see but it looks like Hamilton going past Webber once the camerman get over his shock and re-focus's on the race, that would mean Hamilton was slowing for ages, and the SC would have been a couple of hundred meters in front of him by that stage.

  • Firstly, congratulations to the camera man on covering the race better than FOM did!

    Second, I wonder if there's any footage from the same safety car period showing the cars going through there on a different lap that might shed further light onto why Hamilton drove the way he did? As he said, "I felt something was going to happen".

    And finally, I think we have to consider the question of what Hamilton's motive would be? What would he have to gain from causing two drivers directly behind him to have a collision, when they aren't in the championship battle, it would risk taking him out of the race along with them, and elevating the chasing Raikkonen two further places up the field as a result?

  • motive is good question keith, but, looking for a motive would suggest LH did what he did deliberately. that wasn't my inference, i think he managed to cause havoc unintentionally.

    that doesn't absolve him of blame though, nor does it mean he shouldn't have been punished.

  • Looks to me like Hamilton saw the impending danger and moved out of the way. Itd be useful to see the preceding seconds for a clearer idea.

  • My interpretation is that Hamilton did not fully realize how slow the SC was going to take the corner - got too close then dramatically slowed and went wide and this could easily be interpreted as having problems by the drivers behind him. Webber caught and I think overtook Hamilton, then realized his mistake and lifted throttle very suddenly. We cannot see if Vettel was too close to Webber. I do not think Webber at this point was too close to Hamilton but cannot say this for the entire safety car period without videos to analyze.

    Hamilton's driving would have given mixed messages no question, he also got too close to the SC while entering the corner also no question.

    I froze each screen and it showed that Webber slowed very dramatically and certainly his verbal outburst at Vettel was completely unjustified and very unprofessional. Sorry Webbo but you acted like a spoilt brat and have lost a supporter.

    If you check the driver's reports only Vettel's bares out my interpretation. My conclusion is that it was an accumulative mistake share by the drivers. If Hamilton had managed the pace the situation better then the accident was preventable. I am sure it was a genuine mistake but it was a mistake on the part of Hamilton. Webber needs to acknowledge that he very suddenly decelerated so cannot really blame Vettel for running into him given the near zero visibility.

    Personally if Vettel gets punished then all of them should also drop 10 places, the only different is Webber and Hamilton are not big enough to accept some responsibility, Vettel was - he is the only man among them. Personally I think the conditions were too bad to real start punishing drivers.

    If you put all the blame on Vettel (as some have in these comments) for this accident then Button was entirely to blame for wrecking Heidfeld's race and should also drop 10 places on the next grid. Nobody is saying this would be fair, although neither driver has accepted full responsibility they did not swear at each other.

    So Webbo has lost a supporter and my advice to Vettel is never admit to making a mistake, since it seems admitting it gets you into even more trouble. No wonder the sport is full of a lot of Prima Donnas blaming each other (or the car/conditions) when ever the do not do well.

    Poor Vettel - you did not deserve this punishment nor the bad publicity, and I admire you for having the guts to apologize when it was not all your own fault. Hopefully me and "me" will wish him Good Luck in the next race. For me at least you were driver of the day.

  • Very well said Rich.

  • So everyone's agreed then? It was a non-racing accident! :D

  • clive, you disappoint me, i was rather hoping you'd come along and suggest that mr. scott speed wouldn't have been so silly in the first place.

    :)

    rich, i wish seb vettel the very best of luck in china.

  • I don't mention Speed unless others do so first, Sidey. But you've done it now!

    Nah, it's a dead issue - I'm waiting to see how he does with the good ole boys of NASCAR. Although I did hear a rumour that Scott had a phone call from Ron Dennis a couple of days ago...

    :D

  • OH dear that's tricky isn't it, it looks like the M25 on a good day, whatever hamilton was up to it seems Vettel and Webber were up to plan B so even if he was trying to mess them about it all got out of his hands! Shame the camera was not focussed on Vettel/Webber as well as LH round the corner.

    Also, was I imagining things or did the commentary say Webber had been sick in his helment under the first safety car?? I know a lot of data flies back and forth between car and engineers but really....too much info!!! No wonder he was swearing his head off later!

  • Speed a call from Ron Dennis...? Enquiring minds will wait to hear if that comes to anything more than rumour.

  • poppy you are correct, webber did just that, we kinda tried to gloss over that lovely bit of news though, yuck!

    interesting rumour clive, do keep us posted.

  • here's Webber's thoughts, when asked today about the incident:

    It definitely contributed to Sebastian hitting me up the back because he (Hamilton) wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing, clearly.

    He spoke in the drivers' meeting about how good a job he was going to do and he did the opposite. Still, we know for next time.

    indeed.

  • weighing in with more thoughts is STR boss, Franz Tost:

    Look at the video. Sebastian would have had to have gone between the cars (Webber and Hamilton) and there was no chance. It was totally unexpected. It looked like Hamilton was stopping, that is why I went to the stewards.

  • I think it's a dead issue, they won't take the win from him. Now, on to China. Best of luck to all the racers, except Yamamoto.

  • It's on the BBC news homepage now as well, just in time to rile up the British Lewis fans.

  • Reading Hamilton's response it seems that he took a wide line because he was nervous of Webber behind him (there is history). Whatever, he just did!!

    It's likey that Hamilton's mpositioning played a large part in precipitated the incident but then there is a track, he used it and even if his manouver was unexpected, I don't think he should be blamed for Webber's heavy deceleration and Vettel's lack of anticipation! I mean what? was Vettel joined by a rope to to Webber's tail?

    These type of shunts happen all too often and in the dry too. They play Cat and Mouse and we all know it! I seem to remember an incident, albeit in a dry tunnel at Monaco when M. Schumacher, behind SC was shunted by ????? help? Had that been caused by someone else in front and offside slowing would you blame them? Remove their victory? Um no!

    Schumacher, as Webber caused the incident and retired. He didn't even need a car in front!

    If Schu had escaped damage and gone on to win would you take it away? If so then had Webber got away with it and wrecked Vettel's car, would you take 2nd from him?

    Doesn't matter if someone is in front, you need to anticipate. Hamilton was not involved and you consider taking the win away?

    In the conditions they raced in they would be lucky to see anything at all!

    By the way I'm not Hamilton biased, though it's good to have a Brit up there, how could I be? His car should be red! No it really should be!!

  • it were montoya what hit schumi in the tunnel.

    there's currently a lot of animosity for lewis within the GPDA - given his refusal to join, coupled with some questionable driving techniques.

    earlier today mark claimed it would be a "waste of oxygen" discussing anything with hamilton. that's a pretty harsh statement to be making from someone not involved in the championship battle.

  • crazyness, all this is really ruining f1.

    Let the teams get on with it, if they want to spy on each other then so be it, they all do anyway. If youre security is so bad that another team gets hold of precious data then its tough really.

    Hamilton was on the track and its up to those behind to watch themselves, theyre freeking F1 drivers for crys-sake!

    If he is docked points for that then its a sad(der) day in F1

  • i don't know matthew, it's mostly a storm in a teacup, but as christine said, F1 made the BBC News homepage today.

    if he's docked points then the championship will run right to the last race, he'll almost certainly win it anyways.

    :)

  • and it's gone. FOM finally ripped the video off of YouTube, i suspect it'll only be a short while before a copy appears!

  • Funny how the FIA laid claim to the film rights and had it pulled. I think they don't want a rookie to win the title. Bernie Kidneystone is really something!

  • i don’t know matthew, it’s mostly a storm in a teacup, but as christine said, F1 made the BBC News homepage today.

    if he’s docked points then the championship will run right to the last race, he’ll almost certainly win it anyways.

    true, but the FIA seems to be bringing the sport into disrepute itself lately to me.

    it just means that championships seem to be taking place in FIA hearings and not on the track, so whats the point watching a race?

    The qually is bad enough for a start, the first 2 are pretty much a waste of time and the 3rd is an embarrassing fuel burn exercise for the most part.

    bring back the 1 hour free-for-all, much more entertaining and tactical.

  • Since most of the GP guys are complaining (Jenson and Fernando have jumped in) it is inevitable that some punishment will result for Lewis. The rule book says

    "Any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane."

    Lewis's antics were more than potentially dangerous since they realized an accident that could have been serious. Given that according to many of the F1 drivers on both occasions the pace behind the SC was erratic we have to assume that Lewis was deliberately bunching all the cars so that he could get his tires warmer than any one else (the Schumacher trick).

    Basically the penalty on Sebastian is unjustified if Lewis is not penalized. It is interesting that Mark has taken back much of his criticism of Sebastian. I agree with "me" if Lewis is docked all of his points the championship fight is likely to be taken to the wire and so more audiences and viewers will be watching.

    Although for Lewis to lose all ones points would be quite harsh it is not actually unjustified considered it was effectively a repeated misdemeanor and pre-meditated one. In contrast Sebastian only had a momentary lapse of focus (watching Lewis rather than Mark) and loses 10 places on the grid in the next event. I showed the video to several people and on first watching they all focussed on Lewis's antics and virtually did not see the accident between Mark and Sebastian. So this means most people would have had the same accident because your brain is tuned to focus on events that are out of the ordinary (abnormalities) - its part of our survival package mother nature gave us.

    Finally, everyone just give a thought to Sebastian, he is just twenty years old in his sixth GP and is in third position driving the STR (which is either the worst or second worst car - suspect it shares worst car status with Spyker) and just behind Mark and ahead of David in the sister team (both of whom are F1 veterans and well respected) and driving the rather more competitive RBR cars - he must have been gutted by the accident and the fall out of abuse that followed. That was why I was so hard on Mark in my earlier comments - it is not as if Mark has not made mistakes in the F1 cockpit.

  • I showed the video to several people and on first watching they all focussed on Lewis’s antics and virtually did not see the accident between Mark and Sebastian

    Well Hamiltons is the car in the centre of the screen at the start of the video and then the crash is way off to the left, almost off screen is it not? Not very surprising people overlooked it. I almost missed it the first time and I know what to look for.

    Finally, everyone just give a thought to Sebastian, he is just twenty...blah blah

    Is this how F1 works now? "He's young, in a crap car, give him a break and some point while youre at it" - Hmm.

    Hey, give the championship to me – I dont even get to drive an F1 car! What the hey, give it to my mum, she cant even drive!

  • Is this how F1 works now? “He’s young, in a crap car, give him a break and some point while youre at it” - Hmm.

    My point is Vettel was in a good position driving virtually the race of his life and Hamilton stuffed it up with reckless driving. Currently Button, Webber, Alonso, and Heidfeld have all slammed Hamilton (quite a record). That must make him about the most unpopular driver among his peers. Visit YouTube and it is not the only scene (evidence) of "erratic" driving on behalf of young Hamilton during the race.

    Jacques Villeneuve was excluded from the Japanese GP for ignoring a yellow flag, Hamilton should be excluded from this Japanese GP since he clearly ignored the following instruction.

    Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations states: "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the Safety Car, the race leader must keep within 5 car lengths of it."

    Alsono was pushed down the grid after securing pole simply because he did not leave the pits promptly during qualifying giving Hamilton another chance at pole (unsporting yes - dangerous no) and they are in the same team so it is not putting another competitor at a disadvantage.

    Back to Vettel I admire a driver that can say under such circumstance...

    "In the end it was my fault," and "I am not here to blame anybody but I think it is clear the rhythm was not there.

    I did not say he should be given points, but he was brave enough to shoulder the responsibility and took a lot of unjust and very harsh criticism plus a penalty. The video above clearly confirms that his account of the event to be accurate.

    If Hamilton loses the Championship due to this it might be the best thing since he needs to become a lot more mature and humble. He is currently the most obnoxious, self-centered and egotistical personality in the F1 industry - which is quite an achievement considering you have veterans like Max, Bernie, Jean and Flavio competing for this distinction.

    Hopefully next year McLaren will get Rosberg as their second driver, Hamilton will then come to realize he is fast but there are other drivers his age and as fast.

  • something has just occurred to me. one person who has quite a bit to gain from a penalty being applied is kovi.

    if, say the win was revoked, heikki kovalainen would be declared the race winner (his first win). i've not heard a peep from him at all today, but he was behind lewis for a short while after the accident so presumably has an opinion one way or the other?

    i'm also surprised that flav isn't out there flappin' his arms about. a race win would do them no harm at all.

  • Looks to me that as the SC slows for the turn Hamilton realises he's too close and slows and moves to the side anticipating cars arriving from the rear. Because of the spray it seems unlikely that he could have certain about their postion. Seems like a mistake then a safe recovery.

    As Hamilton slows, Webber and Vettel are still on the racing line. It seems that Webber has seen the car in infront slowing and reacts.

    This reaction does not take into account cars arriving from the rear.

    Was he worried about being penalised for passing under the SC?

    It looks to me due to the spray Vettel's visibilty was restricted so he can see Hamilton but not Webber.

    Also, if Vettel thought Hamilton was retiring he would have no reason to think Webber would be slowing down.

    Yes the lead car dicatates the pace, but SC lights still, poor visibilty, poor grip.

    Surely given these conditions it is encumbant on following cars to ensure their own safety by keeping an appropiate distance to the car in front.

    I know it's racing but on the public roads if you hit someone in the rear it is always your fault.

    .....And in conclusion.

    You flaming whinging Aussie!

    Ahhhh; that felt good.

  • Strangely enough, I watched the race. And the very first time I saw Lewis keep to the right as he went through the chicane it was obvious why he did so - the SC had slowed so much that Lewis either had to throw out the anchor to avoid running into him (not a good idea, considering how Webber had been driving up Hamilton's backside all the way through the SC period) or take a very different line. He did the latter, a sensible decision, I think.

    Webber was so close behind that he couldn't see the SC in all the spray and he went through the chicane as normal, immediately afterwards having to jam on brakes to avoid hitting the SC. Naturally, Vettel (who had also been driving far too close) piled straight into him.

    Cause of the accident (if any)? Webber. No wonder he's changing his story as fast as he thinks of better reasons why it wasn't his fault.

    Considering the conditions, it was a perfectly understandable accident for which no-one should be penalised. The stewards, in their wisdom, chose to hand out a penalty to poor Vettel. Bad decision, but let's not compound the error by penalising someone who was two cars in front and does not have some mysterious power to make following drivers rear-end each other.

    Before the rumour becomes the latest internet gossip, I'd better admit that I was joking about Speed and Ron Dennis, by the way. Looked like it was taking on a life of its own for a while back there...

  • The issue on whether Hamilton caused the crash is speculative.

    The facts are.

    1. After the safety care was out both Webber and Vittel were too close to each other.

    2. The Pace car braked coming out of the corner. Remember that its acceleration and braking are NOT the same as a F1 car therefore the condition were very different. The pace care is almost 2/3 under specced than current F1 Cars

    3. All cars should be at least 5 car lengths apart. Estimate 4.5-5m per car that is 25 M apart thats 82 feet. All f1 cars can stop within that distance at speeds sub 150km. So they were all driving too close to the lead driver. The radio messages apparently state that the 2nd & 3rd cars almost overtook on the safety car at previous corners. This is very difficult in a competitive environment and errors can be made. The drivers are probably blaming out of embarrassment rather than any factual basis.

    4. The lead driver came up on the safety car in the rain and saw that he was approaching too fast and pulled over. It is not his responsibility that the following cars were too close together.

    I think Clive has the most balanced explanation I have seen to date.

  • "I think Clive has the most balanced explanation I have seen to date."

    that's generally true of most things clive says macca.

    'cept for when he mentions SS of course!

  • Careful, Sidey - you'll start another rant!

  • The safety car does not brake coming out of the corner. Lewis was in control of the situation, he accelerates into the corner,he is slightly to the left of the safety car, if he wanted to slow down there was plenty of space from the apex of the right hander to the edge. Besides if you are going in too fast, how can he switch his lines midway through the first corner?

    He makes a decision to use the outside line for next corner , comes out and he brakes on the outside line.

    Lewis had decided to use this line so that he can warm his brakes.

    He ofcourse didnt realise that Webber would have to slow down dramatically.

  • As it stands Vettel has been punished for a slip in concentration. Luizzi lost his point for ignoring a yellow (he says there was a green flag). In the past Villeneuve was excluded from the Japanese GP for ignoring a yellow flag. What Hamilton is being accused of happened REPEATEDLY in BOTH safety car situations and increased the risk of an accident. Prior to the race he said he would drive well under the safety car so he knew how important it was. He was try to gain an unfair advantage by keeping heat in tires and breaks by accelerating and braking behind the safety car. This must constitute a more serious breach since it was clearly pre-mediated (a Schumacher trick). To me for Hamilton to lose his points seems fair relative to how other drivers have been penalised. Drivers in the past have been banned from the next race for rather less misdemeanors. Were Vettel's 10 grid penalty to be overturned then possibly a stern warning to Hamilton would be all that is necessary. I will concede the delay in considering the punishment and its manner (trial by YouTube) is a bit unfair to Hamilton. This year we had three driver all of whom could be equally worthy of being World Champion. Were you to ask the GP drivers themselves who would be the most deserving 2007 champion, I doubt whether Hamilton would receive many/any votes!

    Can anyone tell me how FOM can claim an amateur video footage violates their copyright! Does this mean all photos taken at a GP event (including press ones) are their property as well? Do they have big notices at GP events displaying no photography can be taken with Cameras/Cellphones/Video cams etc? I deal with copyright issues almost daily and without the above notice forbidding taking photos the copyright should be that of the owner and YouTube should not have the right to remove it (of course they could always use the "inappropriate" clause of user agreements).

  • Can anyone tell me how FOM can claim an amateur video footage violates their copyright! Does this mean all photos taken at a GP event (including press ones) are their property as well? Do they have big notices at GP events displaying no photography can be taken with Cameras/Cellphones/Video cams etc?

    yep, the details are on the back of the ticket. if you except the terms and enter the gate, you essentially lose rights to any video or photos you take.

    it sucks, it's a stupid idea that *fan footage* can cause loss of earnings for FOM, especially in light of the fact that stewards are using this footage as evidence.

    sadly that's the way the little man wants to run the sport, so that's what we've got.

    it's worth saying, that these rules apply just as much to teams as they do to the public.

  • M. Schumacher got in the 1995 Silverstone GP the black flag because he overtook Hill in the warm-up lap.

    Hamilton provoced Webber of him overtaking, hence he (Hamilton) must get fined, and Hamilton must learn this lesson and put it down to experience.

    Michael

  • looks like he got away with it:

    Lewis Hamilton will not receive a punishment over the crash involving Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel in the Japanese Grand Prix.

  • I don't think what he did warranted punishment perhaps, put it down to inexperience and bad weather - but if that video proves just one thing it's that he did break the rules - when he slowed down to almost a stop the safety car was way more than 5 car lengths ahead. Still confused as to why he did that.

  • "Still confused as to why he did that."

    and the stewards aren't saying either.

    if nothing else, people will be paying close attention to his driving in the future.

    i note that whilst many drivers were quick to apportion blame and follow up with a twist of the knife, not one stood up to defend the guy. that'll be weighing on his mind for sure.

  • Indeed Hamilton is a lucky man. At least nobody was punished...

    Vettel's 10-place grid penalty in the Chinese Grand Prix has also been cancelled.

    On Planet F1 the following appeared

    "Having heard the explanation of all concerned and viewed both the original film of the incident which was available to stewards at Fuji as well as the new film (which in reality adds little if anything to the original film), what has become apparent is the view clearly expressed by all drivers and team managers alike that the conditions at Fuji were exceptionally bad and worse than those experienced when the race starts behind the safety car.

    "Because of those views, the stewards accept that it may be inappropriate to impose the penalty normally applied for an offence such as this.

    "In the circumstances the stewards will reduce the penalty imposed on Vettel to a reprimand.

    This seems a bit hypocritical, they were happy enough to maintain the punishment on Vettel up until today. Why no reprimand for Webber driving too close and Hamilton for his erratic driving?

    On the same site Hamilton was also quoted as saying

    "Formula One is supposed to be about hard competition, fair, and that's what I've tried to do this year, just be fair.

    "If I've been in the wrong, I've been the first to put my hand up, or apologise at least, and I don't mind being given a penalty but there's been some real strange situations this year where I'm made to look the bad person or by the looks of it this weekend could be given a penalty.

    "I had a good weekend, I don't think I put a foot wrong and I didn't do anything to harm anyone else or put anyone else in danger but I've come away to China and no doubt I'm going to be punished for something.

    He is just plain delusional!

  • At least nobody was punished...

    except of course for Kubica, who had to serve a drive-through for running into Lewis, whilst driving in the same conditions that others have been exonerated of.

  • Errr....Hamilton ran wide well out of Webbers way?, then Lewis watched Webber have the shunt...glad they didn't punish Lewis.

    The other point is that : i notice the FIA have at last appreciated a "private" you-tube-video posted by a member of the public...i hope the director [you tube member] charged the FIA management for it..ha ha!!.

  • Its all redundant now, bring on the China and let's see some glory come to our green and pleasant land.

    I'd love it if Hammi scooped the title this weekend

    but i just don't want this season to end.

    And I agree with 'me' that Kubica's penalty is un-called for.

    Are we saying all racing accidents are punishable. Drivers should be pushing at all times, they should want to push their car to the limit. That's why we love.

    Of course if he'd taken Hammi out then he should have been blind folded and leant up against the pit wall.

    C'mon England!

  • Needed to say of the trio in the video that

    At least nobody was punished…

    .

    As I understand it Luizzi still has the penalty and lost point which is under appeal. Frankly it would be unfair given the above to continue with that penalty.

    conditions at Fuji were exceptionally bad... AND that it may be inappropriate to impose the penalty normally applied for an offence

    .

    If this were the case Orange India (nee Spyker) would be mad to lose their one point.

    As "me" said Kubica served a drive-through for running into Lewis.

  • I think is highly unfair the way FIA is making decisions these days, first you expel a team from a championship for using another teams info to develop their cars but you don’t do the same with the drivers, that drove, and won points with those cars developed with theft info? then weeks later you forgive vetel´s penalty because it was unfair but you don’t want to punish the driver that caused the accident because it is Mr. Lewis Hamilton

    And the worst of all is the way FOM do not want the fans to have an opinion censoring the content of a video that could create controversy and that could spoiled the chances to have a “New Hero” as world champion.

    I know british fans would love to see Lewis being a world champion as they most likely will do in some hours,(any other fan around the world would do the same for their countryman), but I do really find more much heroism in the way jenson drives that piece of earth crap battling for a 12th place that in the way lewis is being baby sit to win the title

  • "Errr….Hamilton ran wide well out of Webbers way?, then Lewis watched Webber have the shunt… glad they didn’t punish Lewis."

    Errr there are some inconsistencies.... In his own defence Lewis' claimed that conditions were really bad/couldn't see through his mirrors/was just trying his best etc etc and yet there are also reports of him saying Webber was driving too close. People have also defended Hamilton in the above manner saying he must have got out the way as he 'knew' something was going to happen.. HOW? If visibility was so bad how did he know anything of what was going on behind him?? I don't get it. He slowed up waaaay to much no wonder Vettel thought he was retiring. It looks like his car had failed at one point he's going that slow.

    I'm not on the witchhunt bandwagon but anyone with eyes can see he did something unexplainable.

  • nice one ruby, take a listen to this weeks renault podcast.

    both alan and steve put the blame squarely on hamilton's shoulders. they also raise the key point that lewis had been warned two days earlier, by Charlie, about his behaviour behind the safety car.

    given that information, why didn't the stewards look into his part in the accident while the race was still ongoing?

  • FURTHER to my previous comments,

    it is still on youtube and on:

    racingaccidents.wordpress.com/2007/10/16/hamilton-leading...

    keep on rocking lewis.

    we need a new super star.

    liberg.

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