Romain Grosjean handed one race ban after first lap crash in Spa
The Lotus drivers penalty seems just, but is it fair he is the only one?
Published by Christine Blachford
A few weeks ago in Feet Up Friday, I pondered whether Romain Grosjean was a little bit like Pastor Maldonado, having caused a few crashes that have impacted on other drivers. At the time, I concluded that at least his were crashes of inexperience rather than recklessness, and he was willing to accept blame afterwards - whereas a certain Williams driver would not.
Today, Romain caused the ultimate pile up at the first corner of the Belgian Grand Prix, taking out three other cars. It was a stupid move off the line, chopping Lewis Hamilton and leaving the McLaren driver with nowhere to go. It was a dangerous accident, and the outcome could have been a lot worse. The FIA have handed Grosjean a one race ban, meaning he will miss next week's Grand Prix at Monza.
This makes a lot of sense - extra care is always required at the start of a Grand Prix and he took many of the leading championship contenders out of the action before turn one.
My only question is how it's possible that Grosjean is the first driver to be handed a race ban this season? Pastor Maldonado has made as many, if not more, reckless moves and has also knocked out championship contenders by putting his car in a crazy position. It was, after all, Maldonado who all the other drivers were being warned to avoid over their team radio during yesterday's qualifying.
We've seen it time and again, Williams missing out on points, drivers questioning his ability, everyone sure it is dollars and not driving skill keeping the man in a seat.
I've been a fan of Grosjean this season, and his actions today make my fickle heart question that a little bit. I can't defend him at all. Even the team did not submit anything in defense of their driver's actions. But if a serious "error of judgement" was made here by the Frenchman, then surely many errors of judgement have been made elsewhere in the field.
last season vettel ran button onto the grass at the start of the race in japan and nothing was said or done about it. grosjean does the same to hamilton, but gets a race ban.
glad stewards are clamping down on dangerous start manoeuvres but there's no consistency whatsoever between near identical moves. the only difference i can see is hamilton didn't move on to the grass, he stayed put. if grosjean's move had "the potential to cause injury to others", so did vettels.
Not to mention Schumacher shoving Rubens into the pitwall in Hungary which is the worst piece of driving thuggery we have seen in a very long time
haven't validated this, but seems likely:
@eleanor_ms only three races with no penalties for Maldonado this year: Australia, Malaysia and Spain
true enough. schumi at least got a grid drop for that at the next race. nothing at all for vettel, who came third.
If causing a collision through being careless (etc) gets a race ban, I question Maldonado's punishment from Valencia - when he used his car like a weapon on Lewis, where there was no possible outcome other than a collision. Was it not here last year that he scythed across the front of Lewis after Q2 Quali? Deliberate recklessness is surely worse than careless recklessness.
I move that #BlamePastor be upgraded to #PenalisePastor.
There isn't even time to appeal to get a reduced penalty i.e. grid drop.
i second that move.
"welease womain!"
if the team appealed, the penalty would be suspended. i guess? but if they lost, it could increase.
"Wone wace was weally unfaiwr."
Whoa. Last year,in Japan Vettel came in third and Hamilton came in fifth. In another words, they both continued on racing with on more than an additional risk to "the potential to cause injury to others" than any other racing after an incident.
Now in the aftermath of the contract is made between Grosjean and Hamilton, once the racing car sharpnel starts forming, there is a massive increase to "the potential to cause injury to others", tio say nothing about cars flying overhead of other drivers who got caught up inn this.mess.
But I think that Grosjean got off too lightly based on my calculations that if Scheckter can be tossed out for four races for crashing 12 cars at Silverstone, surely then, Grosjean should get a 1.333 race ban for 4 cars?
I think it is a very cruel punishment forcing both the driver and car to finish a race that they know they are going to be down by 20 or more laps before they even start....
So had Pastor got ahead of everyone else involved in the wreck with his jumping of the start? I can't help but wonder if there was something about his sudden false start that might have surprised Romain and led to his poor decision. I'm sure that there is no way to ever know and that I'm just grasping at straws trying to once again #blamepastor even more.
But still I wonder....
vettel ran button onto the grass. where hamilton finished is irrelevant?
Sorry, thought that you mentioned Hamilton in your agrument. But my point is improved in that BUTTON won that race. Hamilton, Alonso, Perez and Gorsjean all had their cars wrecked into thousands of pieces of carbon fibre sharpnel which causes the additional risk to "the potential to cause injury to others ", or airborne racing cars, but certainly not race cars that WON that race.
Something about wght Murray said: "To finish first you must first finish"....
I thought it was Jackie Stewart who came up with that
sure, but as i said, button moved out of the way. if he hadn't, the result would surely have been something not entirely dissimilar.
romain's manoeuvre was similar to vettel's, the penalty was very different.
Well, I always heard it from Murray, but turth be told, I never thought of him as being the "profound type"....
Stewart's quote would be That would be "always win at the slowest possible speed."
Do not forget that Vettel was on Pole and Button was second, so it was a little bit easier for button to keep track of the cars around him....
Hamilton and Grosjean where mid pack, not that I am defending Grosjean here, but you can see that both drivers eyes were looking elsewhere?
Final analsys: Unless we bring out a Time Machine, the past is past. We can only fix the present and if the FIA starts handing out these avoidable accidents penalities then I am great with it.
Another interesting thing to note is Romain's acceptance of the penalty, even if it was harsh. He's taken the penalty and once a driver does maybe it was the correct decision after all?
Also, on the basis of inconsistancy, if the FIA are starting to clamp down on this, which is good, they've got to start somewhere, so for a while, yes, it is going to look inconsistant compared to comparable incidents in the past (Vettel etc.), but will look fair in the long run. That is if they keep it up.
Another point I made on twitter was it wasn't the first time Grosjean has done it this season either (Monaco and Schumacher), perhaps that was taken into account as well.
It's still an outrage Maldonado is allowed to drive, still.
i know. and today romain was ahead of hamilton, so by that logic it's easier for hamilton to back off? if vettel wasn't at fault, neither can romain be.
What F1 needs is the real American Football referees as stewards. It is not like they are actually doing anything with the strike going on....n :^)
agreed.
he was caught up in all sorts at the beginning of the season too.
Romain did come from a good way to the side, not like Lewis went right up the back of him. The chopping manoeuvre was harder to avoid.
He didn't fair well in either of the first 2 races - spec leaving Aus around the 4th corner after meeting Pastor.
Oddly enough it appears that Lewis started 8th and Grosjean 9th. Seems to be kind of strange to me to go into a slanted direction knowing that that the guy in front of you is staggered in front. It is like to are going to meet him in an accident....
Now being on pole means that you already start in front of teh guy in second, and the guy in second has a clear view of what you are up too.
Strike? But the season starts next week. Is this going to get sorted?
it is sorted. The NFL is using replacements referee's. It is really quite fun! Your most hopeless team does seem to be having a decent shot of winning games as the zebras are even having problems spotting the ball between downs!
You as a fan have just a good a chance of getting called "offside" as the players!.
Sounds like we cold get some interesting discussions this seasons
"Personal Foul on Steven Roy for something - 15 yards repeat third down*"
* Type of bad call you will hear. Espeically when Roy was the one getting fouled, not causing the foul....
GRO: the rear of my car made contact with the front of Lewis’s. I honestly thought I was ahead of him & there was enough room for both cars - Jennie Gow
He needs to learn where the corners of his car are in his 'week off'
doens't matter how much of a view you have if there's nowhere to go though. where was lewis going to disappear to today?
I think Lewis could've done with the time machine at that point. #TARDIS
@f1kate: Just throwing this out there... How many of you guys know who Maldonado's manager is?
fun!
Exactly which makes todays mess worse than Japan last year (by far), therefore a tougher penality should occur. Button was able to go somewhere (on the grass), and win the race.
Well speaking in terms of Sidepodspace if we managed to have had Hamilton be compressed into Grosjean far enough to create a gravitational singularity, I guess the correct answer would be a "Black Hole", although the more technically correct answer would be an event horizon, as we would be abkle to see Hamilton beyond that point....
* Sorry, obivous "not" missing here.
@f1kate: Just throwing this out there... How many of you guys know who Maldonado's manager is?
fun!
The owner of a car insurance company? :^)
The Go Compare man? And I thought I couldn't dislike Maldonado enough.
I AM IGNORING ALL OF THE ARGUMENTS ABOVE BECAUSE THIS MEANS HEIDFELD CAN COME BACK TO F1. IN A DECENT CAR. I AM UNSTOPPABLY HAPPY.
*ahem* More seriously, I agree with Mr C on the principle of forcing cars off the track limits- you should be penalised if you force other cars off the track and into dangerous situations. Whether it's a wall or the grass, the intent of the aggressive driver is the same, so the penalty should be equal. That said, the FIA may have decided to take a firmer line this year on such actions, but I hope they're consistent, which has been the main problem over the past few years.
:) :)
The Yeti returning ?!?!?!?! That's abominable !!!!!! :^P
Yes Vettel should have been reprimanded (warning or token fine) but the difference is that Button had somewhere to go on that occasion.
However the key difference between previous incidents and Grosjean is that there was a clarification of the sporting regulations earlier this season after Rosberg ran Alonso off the road. The change was that you could move over on another car only if there was not a significant part of the cars overlapping. In Grosjean's case there was significant overlap, and then a collision that resulted in half a dozen drivers having their races ruined.
that is a fair point.
Does inexperience really come into this any more? I understand lots of drivers being inexperienced in technical matters as tehy go from formula to formula and team to team, but Grosjean has been racing cars for 10 years and had 2 years of karting prior to that.
To be honest, I just do't buy the inexperienced line anymore. This isn't like the Scheckter comparison on the site a few weeks back - Schecker entered F1 in his 2nd ever season of racing - both Grosjean and Maldonado should have learned to not to have these incidents' a long time ago. If they haven't learned by now, they may never learn.
i think alonso made a great point yesterday:
It’s a bit of a tendency currently in the junior formulae, but it would be better, if right from the start of their career, they got used to respecting more strictly the rules relating to behaviour on track
maybe both RG and PM are students (victims?) of poorly stewarded formulae.
*i read that quote in gp+ btw, don't know if it's been reported elsewhere yet.
It's a lot more complicated than that, but yes in junior formulae, severe penalties are very, very rare.
Many junior series' are struggling badly and are just looking to fill grids. While grid penalties tend to be annoying, those with money (and huge factor in feeder championships) tend to act badly when banned and can take their money elsewhere.
T'is the way things are at the moment. I'm all in favour of harsher penalties, but it's not going to happen any time soon and the drivers who come through the ranks will never learn, because their actions are not confronted.
surely it's up to the fia, who ought be free from commercial temptation, to ensure rules are followed and penalties handed out. same reason the stewards aren't appointed by bernie in f1.
Gary Anderson doesn't mince his words: I have worked with many racing drivers in the past who, even when they were given a ban, felt they had not done anything wrong and did not see any reason to change their ways. Their teams need to tell them they are doing something wrong and the drivers, in turn, must accept that advice and realise it is time to buck up.
www.bbc.co.uk/spo…formula1/19465187
Will Buxton has a good post along similar lines but saying that it needs to start with F1 and work down, which I agree with. willthef1journo.w…dards-and-safety/
Leigh's point is sadly valid, there are so many development/junior series that if a backers' kid gets a race ban they'll just move them somewhere else. It needs to happen everywhere.
Interesting too that a BTCC team owner (finally) spoke out about Jason Plato's ramming tactics, that's another high-profile series (at least in this country) and okay rubbing is a little more acceptable in touring cars (like NASCAR) but the big names completely ride roughshod over the rulemakers because they know they draw the crowds, cars benig punted off everywhere.
The whole sport needs a rethink, certainly in Europe-based series.
FIA are very rarely ever involved in junior formulae. For example, neither GP2 or GP3 are FIA formulae as such.
shame. sounds like they need a neutral observer to oversee certain things :(
Lotus engineer Ricardo Penteado tweeting that HAM also responsible as he had 'room'.
@RicoF1: Calm down guys ... do you remember BAR vs MSC in BUDA? HAM had more space, that's all! Stats are there for HAM too ... pic.twitter.com/CWYyNwx0
I don't suppose Lewis expected that after eating up all the track, coming across at him, that Grosjean would try to continue further. And what is he suggesting, that Lewis should've anticipated the extreme move, and taken to the grass. If Romain didn't have any more space to move into (ie because Lewis' car was 'in the way') then he shouldn't have carried on. I understand Penteado is on his team's side, but he seems to be clutching at straws somewhat.
http://t.co/CWYyNwx0
oh interesting! although using schumi's move to defend romain's actions can't be considered sensible.
if his team aren't happy, why did romain not protest, why did the team not appeal?
yeah, at that particular split second lewis had a small amount of room to move right, but romain covered almost the entire width of the start straight to get to the point where lewis had an inch to spare.
Almost like a lawyer arguing that somebody else was sentenced for manslaughter (for a different crime), when trying to defend a murderer.
I read it as Lewis needed some punishment as well, but I expect they didn't want the stewards to increase Romain's punishment - a sign that Lotus thought he got off lightly?
In fairness to all concerned here I admit I was screaming for Schuie's head on a platter for that move on Barichello in Hungary. I wanted Schuie to have a lifetime ban for that move, but I should state for the record that I was pro--Williams, pro-Barrichello and anit-Schuie at that point so maybe a lifetime ban was too harsh - 24 yrs, 363 day ban then?
However, If I recall correctly Schuie and Barri where not even fighting for position and there's a concrete wall at the very end of the track.
But Grosjean at the very least created an avoidable accident as there is clear space to Grosjeans left side and front, so Grosjean should get punsihed for it. You got off pretty lightly, my Schuie-apprentice...
eh? yeah they were.
They were fighting for 10th place at Hungry back in 2010. So it wasn't a pivotal point, but a point nonetheless.
However, the real point seems to be that the FIA will only ban you if you take out championship challengers. (Which I feel to be ridiculous.) I guess I'll just save all of my ramming for Narian or Timo Glock, then it's ok.
that isn't even consistent though. pastor took out hamilton in valencia.
I read that as just them explaining what happened, which did leave that unfortunate insinuation. And you're right Mr C, inconsistent on an incident which I think is worse:
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