Mercedes Set to Confirm F1 Plans Today (Updated: Brawn GP Become Mercedes Grand Prix)
Published
During the weekend, Martin Brundle suggested we should expect a Mercedes announcement this week, and James Allen posted this morning he's been invited to a conference call with Mercedes, who are ready to announce plans for their future in F1.
Finally we'll find out what the manufacturer intends to do with Brawn and McLaren, and what shape their involvement with the teams will take over the next few years.
Updated: It's been confirmed that Mercedes have bought a controlling stake in Brawn GP, and will be rebranding the team under their own name. They are still expected to supply McLaren with engines. Joe says Rosberg will be one of the drivers of the Mercedes team, although there are conflicting reports around the web on the official line up of the teams, and no confirmation on that as yet.
Updated: McLaren have put out a press release confirming that they will realign their long term partnership. Of note:
- Mercedes-Benz will continue to power the McLaren's Formula 1 cars until 2015
- McLaren Group will buy back Daimler's 40% shareholding
- The McLaren team will continue to be known as Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
- Its current, distinctive silver-with-red livery will remain unchanged
Updated: Daimler AG swiftly followed up McLaren's press release with their own response. Key points include:
- The Brawn GP team will be renamed Mercedes Grand Prix for the 2010 season
- Daimler will take 45.1% of the Brawn GP team
- Aabar will take 30% of the Brawn GP team
- Remaining 24.9% will remain with the current Brawn GP stakeholders
- The transaction remains subject to the approval of the EU and the Swiss cartel authorities
- The former Brawn GP team, will continue to work under the leadership of Ross Brawn
- The former Brawn GP team, will be co-ordinated by Mercedes-Benz Motorsport and headed by their Vice-President, Norbert Haug.
As yet there had been no announcements regarding driver confirmation.
298 Responses
Just once I'd like someone to announce an announcement, and then make it something completely unexpected that no one saw coming.
'Brawn sign back Barrichello'
:)
realBrawnGP are suggesting McLaren are going to be ceasing their Mercedes deal from 2011 and that Brawn will be announcing the Mercedes buyout today.
RealBrawnGP also seem to think they'll confirm Button today too. Would make sense to announce it all at once...
I'd like to have my offseason back, thank you very much. So it's the right thing to do for Merc. :D
James Allen's website has been down for FAR too long. He must be typing one HUGE post about the Mercedes conference call.
Or perhaps he's fainted onto his keyboard after the announcement that Little Nelson has been signed by McLaren and Luca Badoer has been signed to lead Brawn...
Reading the article, it doesn't necessarily think the lineup will be confirmed today, but it will speed up negotiations for that lineup.
While it says that it has "no doubts a suitable deal will be concluded between the team and driver," it still mentions Heidfeld as a second choice for Brawn (which makes it seem rather conflicting for me).
Can't wait to hear this announcement.
Does James' website seem to go down a lot though, or is it just me? It;s like Twitter reliability but in an f1 blog
only about an hour?
he played around with the cache(?) which meant that almost nobody could see his recent posts on the website. Now that is fixed but the feed is condensed again and the site crashes. Poor James, blogging is not easy.
I love how these F1 drivers keep thinking they can rally drive and then crash out of the event
http://f1.gpup...ut-of-sicilian-rally/
I think Heidfeld is being used to get Jenson to be modest in his contract negotiations. I cannot see Ross actually hiring Nick, if Jenson were available. I also do not buy this German team vs British team bit. Of course if Jenson accepted a Macca offer then Nick is the most similar type of driver to Jenson so he could then be on the shopping list.
Agreed on all counts. If you read the daily thread earlier, you will also see Stuart's comments about Brundle's article in yesterday's Times. Very interesting insight.
interesting, the option of Mercedes pulling out not even considered :-) imagine if it was Renault calling the journos instead ....
BBC gossip column reaches new depths...
they're now quoting the Daily Mail!
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8362091.stm
Rumour (I said rumour...) says Brawn will be rebranded Mercedes GP with Button and Rosberg.
That sounds most plausible rumour so far
Looks likely they'll be called 'Mercedes GP' with Button and Rosberg on driving duties.
Google translators at the ready! http://www.aut...d-button-1476530.html
Deiter has quite the 'tache. Also, I hope this is false :(
The BBC are saying:
"German car giant Mercedes has bought the Brawn Formula 1 team in a move that is likely to see Jenson Button join McLaren as Lewis Hamilton's team-mate.:"
= Grumpy lou
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8362295.stm
:/
That makes me feel very sick :(
I expected the take over. Not so much Jenson
Expected the takeover but not the name change to Mercedes GP :(
The Jenson news just adds to the whole rubbishness of the situation if true...
Now we're about to find out who's better connected to Brawn - Phil Huff or the BBC...
So Mercedes have bought Brawn and Jenson Button will be driving for Brawn/Mercedes, I mean for McLaren, I mean for Brawn/Mercedes, I mean for McLaren...
Get the feeling that nobody knows who Button will be driving for?
Mercedes confirm they buying controlling stake in Brawn, will still supply engines to McLaren 1 minute ago from web
http://twitter...1/statuses/5762856129
Auto Motor und Sport say it's Rosberg and Button - and they're a German outfit...
http://www.aut...d-button-1476530.html
Kimi to Merceddes?
Cant see button staying there now the team has lost its identity
From this, we can deduce that they have bought the team, but not confirmed any drivers, hence all the different reports?
It seems this way. BBC is saying heidfeld and rosberg in a rebranded german team.
Agree. I think.
Looks like it.
If heidfeld goes to Das GP and button to Mclaren...
Kimi to Renault?
BBC key sentence: Neither driver has yet been confirmed
he said it himself. Mclaren or nothing
Joe saying merc will be all german team http://joesawa...uys-control-of-brawn/
even Joe is saying it will be an all german team
Ugh :( :( :(
Ciao
They should've said that the first time. Cmon, Benson...
Ah-ha! A reputable source at last!
?
hehe i was saying bye to kimi... ;)
He didn't mention Nick's name yet, though. There is hope yet.
ah ok, i'd wondered if you meant that or had got annoyed at me and had gone :D
As far as im aware. Jenson button is not german
Ford and Citroen will be welcoming him with open arms...
hehe, your comment did rile me! :P
Hmm...it seems as though my tweet was a bit premature then.
Has Ross sold his soul to Mercedes?
All-German branding doesn't equate to all-German driver lineup.
Gotta be the return of Ralf in Team Merc. ?!? haha!! but yes, this is most distressing news... Ross has sold out completely! (boo!) and looks like jenson to Mac?? (boo!! too...) grumble....
Alison is not such a fan of the Kimi-renault combo...
#balcony
i take your point but read "Brawn will be rebranded as an official Mercedes, all-German F1 team." as German team with german drivers. "all-german"
There's a certain irony in seeing the German outfits report it'll be Button, while the British outfits imply it'll be Heidfeld...
I wonder if this is the end of the Yellow branding?
Maybe Ross will leave? although i doubt it.
is she still there?!
where does this leave kimi?? rallying.. and drinking cast amounts of vodka in the forests of finland??
http://twitter...nf1/status/5763009016
"Mercedes has confirmed that Brawn will be its works team next year. Cars will be Silver Arrows. McLaren will get Merc engines to 2015"
don't forget the ice cream ;)
Do we get bright fluro orange mclarens now too? :D
I bet it's times like this that are hte most exciting to be an F1 journalist :D
Wow, renewed deal for engines. I didn't expect THAT. Is that still for free, I wonder? And I wonder if it'll really last to 2015. A similar deal between BMW and Williams didn't...
I think a red-and-white McLaren (like the Marlboro days of old, but now with Vodafone) is more likely.
that would be awesome
Probably a fall back in case they can't get their engine program running.
Hah
Booo...Orange FTW
thats almost certainly a yes
would like to see the official press release. very different scenarios circulate the web. here is waht AP says:
BBC say:
?!!!
Also from the Beeb:
I agree with that. does no one know whats going on?
Sources schmorces.
i.e. Merc is selling it's McLaren shares.
I would agree with that
It would appear not! I have little to say until we actually know what's going on :)
Mercedes will shock us all and announce Rosberg and VILLENEUVE.
:P
ah I can't even cheer myself out of this predicament :(
Same. Earlier on it seems a bit more clear, but now no-one does
in times of confusion, i go with joe:
It is expected that the deal will see the German company controlling 75% of the team.
http://joesawa...uys-control-of-brawn/
until a trusted source says different, i'm happy to stick with that.
Stuart C says:
:D
we don't trust the BBC anymore?
i don't.
you can by all means.
because of the gossip column?
AMuS are non-commital about Button and the BBC merely suggest Button may go to McLaren - I don't think either know
i have no faith in andrew benson. i no longer trust what he or his team put out.
I'm waiting until GMM backs one camp - will believe the other one then
I wouldnt say i trust him to the level of Joe, or Autosport... i would put him at the same level as james allen though
your choice.
I'll be back later, lunchtime and I think I need a bit of time to just think all these wild reports through
GMM is on the Heidfeld/ Mercedes side,
http://en.f1-l...il/091116102332.shtml
So AMS is right. Lol.
funny Autosport already has article on Merc mclaren engine deal, referring to new deal between Brawn and Merc but nothing on that Brawn Merc deal ...
The BBC seem to be basing their thoey on the Daily Mail and the Daily Mail's logic was laughably bad. Mercedes are German so they will WANT 2 German drivers was the gist of it.
Completely agree. The BBC F1 website is my last port of call for any F1 related news. They're no better than the hundreds of other websites out there and just feed off what the main sites (Autosport etc) are writing about at the time.
i'm going to miss those lemon curd sndwiches :(
i just got a few texts... someone tell me this doesn't mean Jenson is going to move teams....
GMM say he is... so relax :-)
They used to. It seems to be F1 Live and Crash that are flavour of the month now.
ahem. they do get some things right http://drop.io/sidepodcast/asset/gmm-avi ;)
Maybe they'll be silver with lemon curd stripes :-D
http://www.mcl...eases.php?article=381
that's some ron-speak right there:
McLAREN AND MERCEDES-BENZ ANNOUNCE REALIGNED LONG-TERM STRATEGIC ALLIANCE
It's a very positive spin on things isn't it?
i could cry. i hope Jenson is still driving for them... in have to go, but if someone could text me *pokes Lukeh* if Jenson is confirmed or anything today as i've got frees for the rest of the day. i may need to go treat myself now...
From the mcLaren press relaese:
"its distinctive silver-with-red livery will remain unchanged"
So no orange McLaren.
They've already bought the paint?
Yup. I waited for Joe before updating this post.
Autosport has the Brawn takeover story:
http://www.aut...s/report.php/id/80174
Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrubish
ahh, good stuff. i has just woked up and commenters seemed very confused.
At least Mercedes have a good motorsport pedigree, so surely they won't make the same mistake that Honda, Toyota and BMW did. Still, their "second" team won the championship this year and you can't help thinking that the same might now happen next year.
"Button, who won the drivers' title this year, has been trying to secure a pay-rise from his £3.5m salary but it seems Mercedes is not interested in keeping him on." BBC (2009)
Silly silly people
"Brawn said: "Brawn GP has been through an incredible journey over the last 12 months. From fighting for our survival to forging a strong relationship with Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines, winning both the constructors' and drivers' world championships, and now accepting Daimler and Aabar's offer to buy our team, which will secure its future.""
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8362295.stm
I've done a little blog entry on this: First Impressions of Mercedes' Partial Purchase of Brawn
Brawn found a loophole in this year's regulations. Before that they were nothing. I can't help but think over a period of time this will be a large bodyblow for Mercedes.
Daimler press release out, team will be called Silver Arrows Formula 1 team
it's not that simple. toyota and williams found the same loophole.
honda were hamstrung by a poor engine and improvements restricted by homologation rulings.
Brawn or Mclaren?
i like that!
brawn. mclaren already confirmed their name stays the same: http://www.f1m...m-strategic-alliance/
thought so. got a bit confused
or not ?
The new Silver Arrow team, Mercedes Grand Prix, will compete in Formula 1 as a works team in its own right.
confusing :-)
i do like it, you don't?
I like it, but after reading the press release again I am not sure if they call it Silver Arrow or Mercedes GP :-)
hehe. i one sec, i haven't got there :)
i do like this bit though:
This transaction is subject to the approval of the EU and the Swiss cartel authorities.
it's not a done deal yet.
So Brawn have just become the most successful team in F1 history? With an 100% strike rate.
the whole press release is on Daimler media site (or alternatively also in the post I just published :-) )
I thought press releases were ment to be clear!
This is all confusing, it would have been better to announce the driver pairings too, it's turning into a huge PR disaster, and there's potential for MASSIVE backlash in the UK if they dump Button
From the mcLaren press relaese:
"its distinctive silver-with-red livery will remain unchanged"
So that means Mercedes will be... silver-with-highlighter-green?
Silver Arrows Formula 1 Team is a lot more interesting than Mercedes F1 for example. But those Brawn GP items will now become very special and rare, dontcha think? Oooh... they might have year-end sales! 70% off, baby!!! :D
Scrap that, there WILL be massive backlash if they dump Button
you need lessons in plugging sir:
http://www.f1w...w-formula-1-team.html
Nope. The Mercedes team of the 50s are still the most successful - won the WDC 2 years out of 2 (although the WCC didn't exist yet at the time).
They might be about to ruin that one... But yes it's two championships each I guess.
interesting that this deal is backdated to the 13th of this month. presumably this was agreed on friday? everyone concerned did well to keep it under wraps until today.
those who want to read will find it without my plug :-)
Not so much, I think, if McLaren pick him up.
The thing is, if there's no driver pairing to announce, what can you do? I can't blame McLaren, Brawn, or Mercedes for that.
Brundle mentioned it on Saturday - it was strange that nobody ran with it
24.9 per cent will remain with the current stakeholders
do we know who they are? is that brawn, fry and a few others?
good point.
Only because everyone took it for granted for a few weeks now. The big news everyone wants to know is what happens to "Our Jense"...
Hold fire then announce it in one go!
I guess whoever did the MBO, yeah.
This must be the first time in F1 history that an F1 manufacturer team became a entirely different manufacturer team, while keeping the same people.
I think they announced it now to avoid it getting leaked prematurely...
What, like Brundle did? :-)
ahh, so norbert will be switching garages next year:
Mercedes Grand Prix, the management team of the former Brawn GP team, will continue to work under the leadership of Ross Brawn... as well as the engine team... headed by their Vice-President, Norbert Haug.
I don't think so.
and if Jenson were to join Macca - still a backlash? If you employ Nick for 1 million and Jenson for 8 million there is 7 million to pay employees many of whom would be British since the factory is in Britain.
If Button stays, he'll be in the same garage, different team
Brawn, Mercedes, and McLaren (in that order) all become Twitter trending topics.
My heart is somewhere south of my stomach. My beloved Honda, what has become of you?
Even if Button doesn't stay, he'll be in the same garage - garage order is determined by WCC standings, not by car number.
it is a badly worded (translated?) press release:
"The new Silver Arrow team, Mercedes Grand Prix..."
daimler's words, not ours.
oops, messed that up.
I wanted to say Mercedes can afford to pay everyone in the factory regardless of how much they spend on drivetrs.
Awww... Mercedes GP isn't as good as Silver Arrows F1. :D
Anyhoo, Phil Huff still thinks it'll be Button-Rosberg. Someone in the press will end up with egg on their face soon - and I hope it's Benson. :D
The team is called Mercedes Grand Prix. Silver arrows are the cars
who names their cars? (aside from vettel)
i stil say it's an ambiguous press release. they're keen to get silver and arrow in as many times as possible.
Oh that would fuel BILD for ages. It should be Silperpfeile not silver arrows blah blah blah.
Haug seemed to suggest it was Heidfeld - the question was where was Haug going to be?
From Autosport: Mercedes livery illustration
http://cdn.ima...torial/1258374109.jpg
Makes more sense for them to call it Mercedes, no harm in milking the silver arrows tradition as much as possible in a press release and livery but as Kathi points out, in what language do you call them Silver Arrows?
Oh... interesting.
I'm still unsure what I think of Mercedes GP
Rubbish!!!
Steven can explain that better than me. But a long long time ago, Mercedes decided to not paint their cars to make them quicker. Therefore they were silver and not whatever colour Germany used to have (sorry I'm useless with history) and then they started winning everything and that silver car became a legend. Therefore Mecedes cars are silver and are called Silver Arrows.
Of course - this is HUGE for Mercedes. Every time they entered as a full works manufacturer, they were uber-successful (multiple European Championships in the 30s, double World Champions in the 50s). The phrase "Silver Arrows" harks back to those very successful times.
Its about value for money - if Brawn is some-what stretched on resources - it might make sense simply to go for a cheaper driver. The significant bit is it will now be a Mercedes decision not a Ross decision. I would hate Nick to be employed by Brawn (sorry Mercedes) simply because he was German.
Were Nick to be employed by Mercedes there is a certain poetic justice since McLaren past Nick over for Kimi (and against Mercedes then wishes and his loyalty) and BMW pulled the plug on the team again Nick was absolutely gutted.
Should have left the yellow stripes on :-)
Therefore they were silver and not whatever colour Germany used to have (sorry I'm useless with history) and then they started winning everything and that silver car became a legend. Therefore Mecedes cars are silver and are called Silver Arrows.
Germany's Racing Color is white - which reflects in the colors BMW raced in.
Which reminds me - with Merc now coming in as a full-time manufacturer, how long before BMW decide to say they want back in?
Probably thinking they got out just in time
I was still waiting for Brawn to come out with a decent hat. Looks like I'll have to abandon that hope.
*racing cars, not the street cars of course.
Nick has 0 wins, Jenson has 1 title. The difference is 8-9M (if Brundle's numbers are accurate). For a manufacturer, the difference isn't much - and some of that will be made up with the PR value of having Car 1.
Is this a different dynamic to Honda-Toyota in Japan, where when one left, the other just didn't have a compelling reason to stay?
Better buy one now before they phase it out...
I shall wear my rubens hat in consolation when I return home
From the ever-funny runoffarea:
The Konzernbetriebsratsvorsitzender from the Arbeitnehmerorganisation (the chef of the organisation of the employees, sort of) is already complaining that Mercedes got involved in a new adventure with another F1 team after getting rid of McLaren, because of the financial losses the employees have at the moment because of work time reduction and other things.
Mostly I just posted that because I wanted to show off the amazing way we can build looooooooooong words :)
And a hello to you too!
That maybe why Mercedes will not want to invest hugely into the team and go for a cheap nick instead of an expensive button.
i disagree. ross has done very well from this, considering he bought the team for essentially nothing.
If you're going into F1, you go all-out. If you're going for Nick due to cost on Day 1 of the organization, I don't see that as a good sign. I'd rather see them go for Jenson or Kimi.
Indeed. Probably going to be a rush on the things. Wonder if the silver arrows will continue with little citrus-colored streaks? I just bought a mouse to match the livery, too:
http://www.log...773/png/21613.1.0.png
You did?!
...aww it was a typo. :(
Hello all
Well, I've just seen the news and to those news sites that are saying Jenson thinks the 2010 McLaren will be more competitive than the "Brawn" - so the partner team will be faster than a full works effort? Oh wait, Super Aguri and Hon...yeah, I didn't think that one through.
But I also wouldn't see the logic of Mercedes wanting to favour a German driver over the current world champion. Yes, the guy comes from the same place the cars are built and yes, that would be good from a marketing point of view. But surely the best way to market a car maker is to have it up there at the front and being associated with a world champion, which Jenson now is.
it is a joke, you know. :P although I kinda remember Ross may have said something in the past about not really wanting to own a team, preferring to focus on the technical aspect.
that said, if Norbert knows what he's doing, he will let Ross run the show just like he did at Brawn. If there's one thing Norbert should've learned, it's to let the specialists run the show and go for the PR ride.
They might just rate Nick higher, world championship or no world championship. Or it might be they rate Nico higher, and they just want Button out of the picture.
Don't do it, Norbert. As much as I like Nick, I don't want to see it happen...
Both are crazy thoughts. I mean, Jenson isn't the best world champion on the grid by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't rate Nick higher - he hasn't even won a race...
I find it odd it could be an all german lineup with the team based in the UK...
Norbert won't want to change garages from this year!
Do you think he wouldn't have won in this year's Brawn?
Good point! Which brings me to:
BAR (Pollock) -> BAR (Richards) -> Honda (Fry) -> Brawn (Brawn) -> Mercedes (Brawn/Haug)
They've gone through a LOT of changes in 11 years, no?
Race/s, yes. Title, no.
As for McLaren, as Ron stated in the news story about how he hails the new Merc agreement, I reckon if they buy back the 40% stake which Daimler has and become more of an independant team again, I think that they will eventually look to start producing their own engine. They're doing it with their new upcoming supercar, the MP4-12C, so they have the ability to do so. Whether they decide to apply it to the F1 team is their decision and remains to be seen.
As I said earlier, garage order is dependent on WCC standings, NOT car number. So he won't change garages even if Jenson goes to McLaren.
As far as I know he was talking about McLaren Mercedes not Mercedes GP.
could happen. Joe says in his blog how the McLaren statement says that the Mercedes agreement COULD continue rather than will continue.
They might target 2012 but there is no sense in doing it before that. I'm not sure they will though.
Yes he will. McLaren were 2nd in 2008, Brawn were 1st in 2009. He'll move up one, no?
it WILL continue for the next two years and then they have an option until 2015 according to Auto Motor Sport
Whoa, sorry, must have missed that one mate.
Oh YEAH! So Norbert WILL change garages whatever happens. :D
A contract does not 2011 or 2015 make. Just ask BMW and Williams...
Just waiting for Whitmarsh to turn to THAT woman for fashion tips for the new livery ;)
Any rate, I'm now dreaming of next year's McLaren bathed in solid orange with black, to tie in with the MP4-12C. Reckon they'll be quick to ditch the silver?
They say they're keeping the same livery
The bodywork has to cover the inner workings, she hasn't grasped that idea yet. Maybe when she grows up.
hehehe
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80175
Looks like Norbert is lookin to announce drivers in the next few weeks
Now why does that link point to SPC?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80175
Oops. Hehe. Even so, Autosport isn't loading for me. Arg.
I could copy the link as typed and go to the page (autosport is fine for me) but the link on here points to SPC
Sorry try this
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80175
Sorry I put the link URL in the wrong part of the [a href="enter url here"][/a]
Edd Straw is PERSISTENT. He asked them about Button (indirectly or directly) three times in succession. Norbert wasn't too pleased...
have updated this post with what i think is an accurate assessment of the current state of play, taking into account of everything that has currently been confirmed.
please have a read through and yell if anything is missing/incorrect.
have also moved all related comments into this thread.
Sorry about being in the wrong thread earlier - I disappear for a month, and I have no idea what I'm doing with the new layout!
What's Aabar?
Mr C: As yet there had been NO announcements...
one of Merc's middlemen firms, I think. They were initially linked to the takeover when they were mentioned as possibly holding Merc's Brawn shares in trust for Merc.
No worries. For important F1 stories we try and have a thread dedicated to that subject - partly so that anyone visiting the site can head straight there, and partly so as people (like me) can avoid stories they don't like be sticking to the daily :)
fixed. ta.
all I knows is that they be in abu Dhabi. Nick will approve of this. ;)
well...
Aabar Investments PJSC is headquartered in Abu Dhabi and is a public joint stock company listed on the Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange.
so, erm. no idea? more: http://www.aabar.com/
What, no definitive statements? ;)
Any chance that Bernie will make Mercedes go to the back of the pitlane as a new team?
I think Bernie might show some common sense this time, doesn't do to upset the big manufacturers does it?
Yeah, I know about breakout threads - I just totally failed to notice either a) the live commenting or b) the presence of the news article on the sidebar. I feel like a newbie all over again!
Ah, I see. Blame that Mr C, always tinkering, he is :)
he didn't do that when honda took over bar, or when bmw took over sauber did he?
Don't think so, it's only when they're insignificant like Brawn that he does that
wasn't that because they pulled out of f1?
It's because Bernie wanted to get out of paying prize money
But I thought Bernie was always going to pay them? Ross says Bernie was supportive and was willing to step in if it got to the worst.
ahh right.
With a loan ;-)
Can I be the first person to say here are the new Silver Arrows complete with a Honda F1 DNA!
This picture
http://images....et/newsnew/143082.jpg
is on Autosport and a few other sites too.
Anyone know where its come from?
Mercedes apparently...
Dunno but PHWOAAARRR!!!
oh wow!
sent it out with a press release earlier, why?
Needs more white.
and bright yellow with black surrounding.
*weeps* :(
i agree. that was an "oh wow" i didnt expect them to have released that
Can I ask, why is it bad that Mercedes have taken over?
I ask because Brawn were effectively a factory team this year with the money from Honda. Mercedes have said the Brawn guys can stick around ... so what's the difference?
they wanted a brawn with the roundel on the front, so they made their own.
cheap photoshop work though.
The Brawn name vanishes without a trace. And that name won a title. At least Mercedes could've kept the name ala BMW-Sauber...
I dunno. It's stupid I know. Even though it has the same Honda/Brawn guys, and even though Ross has done an amazing job to get this deal, them being Mercedes GP just... doesn't feel like Brawn. It feels like a new team.
And I hate that possible livery... it's odd to explain how I feel about it...
it wasn't a very iconic name though, was it?
Even Mr B was a bit embarrassed about it.
It meant alot though
Brawn? In time, it could easily have been iconic. Williams wasn't iconic in 1980...
Probably why he didn't insist on it.
Plus I have a stupid fear that what happened with Honda will happen again one day even though it's Mercedes. :(
he was. thing is, he didn't build the team up from nothing, he inherited it.
but did it deserve to be? the team fell into his lap.
he helped save it though, and thats why it means alot to some people
even so - would it have won a title without him? would it have survived without him? hard to say.
it was Brawn who made the case for an MBO rather than a total shutdown, if I remember his F1 Racing interview correctly.
None of us really know just how good Nick is given a competitive car (or for that matter Timo or Adrian and several others). This year he both out- qualified and out-scored the much more sought after Robert. Backtrack 12 months and Jenson had scored 3 points against Nick's 60, back track a year earlier and Jenson scored 6 points against Nicks 61 points. Yes for two years Jenson was driving a dog, this year the BMW Sauber was a dog.
The BMW was no dog last year, and the year before that either. Last year in particular should've been the season Nick won a race. It didn't happen.
i know how good he was in a race winning car. he came 2nd.
As companies they have a different culture and valueset.
Kathi is almost right. The traditional German colour is white. Unbelievable as it seems now there was at one time a maximum weight for cars rather than a minimum and Mercedes found themselves a few (4?) kg over weight. They stripped the white paint off the car and ran it in bare aluminium bodywork. The silver colour then became the standard and was run by Mercedes and Auto Union pre-war when both were known as Silberfeile? or silver arrows. The silver arrows name is not just a Mercedes thing. Both white and silver are regarded as German national colours now although silver is sparklier so it catches the public imagination more.
Kimi came an even more distant second to Felipe in a race winning car last year than Nick did to Robert.
yeah but Nick didn't win hte world championship the year befre
so? you said:
"None of us really know just how good Nick is given a competitive car..."
and i'm saying that i do.
Did not say it was a dog last year. If we are being honest Lewis took out Kimi which opened the opportunity for a BMW to pick up a victory as Felipe was in catch-up mode. BMW Sauber's sole victory was also because Robert had the luckier of the two strategies BMW used and they did not want to compromise their overall strategy.
#sidepodspace update
Everything appears to be on target for todays shuttle lauch in just under 3 and a half hours. NASA TV is currently covering the crew being prepared and loaded. There will be continuous coverage until launch.
If Nick stayed closer to Robert, his one-stop would've prevailed. Sooner or later, you gotta make your own luck.
Least you forget Kimi win in Australia was with an illegal car and Felipe let him through in the final race in 2007 season. My point is if there is not the money to pay the really big salaries you can get drivers who have the potential without the financial outlay. It is 80% car anyway.
Surprised that McLaren are planning to keep Mercedes engines for such a long period. I think it is interesting too that McLaren Automotive is being spun out of the McLaren Group. I wonder if that means they are going to go looking for finance for it and don't want to mortgage the other companies
As for Australia, the stewards said it was legal, and that was that. As for Brazil, had it been the other way round, Kimi would've given way for Felipe. Does Collins giving way to Fangio in 1956 mean Fangio didn't deserve the title that year? Of course not.
Did you read this already?
As for F1 engines, I suspect the Mercedes deal will end in 2011 (Kathi said 2012 beyond is just an option), with McLaren running McLaren-badged engines and/or acquiring a company that can make engines for them.
Was the 2008 BMW Sauber that competitive - I think Robert especially did very well in 2008, but their one victory was probably assisted. Their overall performance was because both driver were making fewer mistakes than the other drivers and the team did not continue to develop the car (yes bad call).
I have clicked all the links and have just started working my way through them
They won a race. Robert led the WDC for a bit. They were in contention for the WCC much of the season. So yes, it WAS that competitive.
Good times. Afternoon, seems all go in here.
Biased view, as I've just come onto the internet, Timo to Mercedes or is it more likely to be Nick/Jenson?
Jenson most likely, then Nick, then Kimi, then Timo. Timo is more likely for Renault or Virgin.
it won a race and the team came third in the championship?
agreed. this is a crazy conversation. and one that is not remotely related to mercedes take over of brawn.
Damn that misleading BBC news.
For the record, they said Heidfeld. I haven't seen any sources (trusted or not) link Timo to Mercedes.
Need to know more about Aabar like Christine?
Read this.
There is an element of lottery in points scored, they also could not have been in contention for the WCC if Nick was also not driving reasonably well.
Is Jenson really hugely better than Rubens (had more points difference than Robert and Nick last year).
Taken over three years Nick is the fifth highest scoring F1 driver (140 points) so why the surprise that he is being considered if the team cannot meet Jenson's salary demands?
they too seem to be confused about the "Silver Arrow team".
Aabar, which also has its shares listed on the Abu Dhabi stock market, invests in non-energy assets on behalf of its majority owner IPIC as part of the Abu Dhabi government's strategy to diversify its economy away from oil and broaden its industrial base
makes much more sense, cheers journeyer.
It does??
Now a Nick and Jenson in Brawn with a Nico and Lewis in McLaren that would make some interesting teamings. Brawn would have two drivers with very similar style and making few mistakes against McLaren with possibly more racy drivers (actually this year I thought Nico under-performed).
I have no doubt they are using Nick to get more reason from the two star drivers about their demands. Both Jenson and Kimi have choices - they are not being left out in the cold - they both have an opportunity to drive in one of the four top teams (could make it top 3 as Ferrari were rather poor this year). It is their choice to either not race or to change teams.
yup, they are a government backed investment company. they give their oil dollars to an f1 team and in return get to figure how stuff works.
essentially so that the country isn't screwed when the oil runs out.
Just wondering, are McLaren planning to stay silver? Because I will scream if we have 2 sets of 2 teams with stupidly similar liveries next season.
*cough*details in the post*cough*
oops.. :(
The red has been starting to dominate the silver anyway at McLaren. I'd think Mercedes would be more predominantly silver although I'd like them to keep the yellow stripes for one season at least, rather than sweeping this year's achievement under the carpet.
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