Anyone for a Breakaway?
Published
By Mr. C.
The Formula One Teams' Association has announced that it is setting up a breakaway championship. Eight of the current Formula One teams met up at the Renault factory in Enstone and concluded that enough was enough, it's time to do things their own way.
A statement from FOTA read:
The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship. These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners.
Then they really twist the knife on the FIA President Max Mosley, with the rather excellent:
This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.
Fighting talk indeed.
While there's nothing to say any of the above will come to fruition, is does mean that today's FIA imposed deadline is all but shot to pieces. Evidently current drivers and sponsors will migrate to the new series on mass, and importantly so will "promoters". Which begs the question where does Bernie stand in all of this?
Now the cat is really amongst the pigeons. Finally the sport has taken a significant step forward and suddenly we find ourselves interested in the politics of F1 again. As ever, feel free to discuss events in the comments.
838 Responses
does it make sense to jump threads from the daily to this post? we're bouncing around a lot tonight, but maybe we should move fota talk here?
Bouncing off the walls, you might say.
mmmm. breakaway chocolate bars :)
Anways, im still stunned. I really didnt think theyd do it to be honest!!
Can anyone get the FOTA site to work? seems down to me...
http://www.teamsassociation.org/
Where would the GPWC be broadcast in the UK? BBC can't break their contract (which I assume is until at least 2012). ITV and Channel 4.......lol. Sky probably, unfortunately.
if bernie goes with fota, then i guess he takes the beeb with him?
The teams wouldnt, the sponsors would hate to lose viewing figures especially in an uncertain period for the sport. I guess the Beeb, i suspect they would offer it up for free for a year.
Wow, a real shock, but something had to give I guess. Is it another round of brinkmanship?
Has to be free to air for the sponsors.
yup. to a point.
depends how max responds in the morning and what williams chose to do now.
Amy in the other thread is right that just now this is just a political move to push Max into conceding ground
is guess the question is, if you were frank williams. what would you do?
About bloody time!
But where is Ron Dennis? :P
President of the new series?
i agree.
but now, whatever he does he loses, right?
Yes. There may be a breakaway and we have to look at the possibilities but there is still every chance it won't happen
Oh no, Ron speak!
I would really laugh if that was the case. Would be awesome. Ron rules.
Timidly knock on Luca's door?
Williams won't make a move yet. They will sit tight until the mist clears and there is a championship to move to.
Yep.
FOTA site just loaded
Or just dominate the 2010 F1
I did write about breakaway options earlier, ill post it here, but its the last time i plug i promise!
http://racingp...out-actually-leaving/
Laughing himself silly
:D
Not necessarily. He may lose a little face but he could get re-elected if his is the man who saved F1.
I feel really sorry for the drivers, even with their millions of dollars/pounds/euros in the bank.
If there is a breakaway championship Frank will move with FOTA
I suspect the teams may be keen to leave any reconciliation until after the elections...
The drivers?> You mean of the saftey and medical cars?
Why?
maybe he is busy cloning lewis? :D
Too late then
Wouldn't the BBC contract (or any of the telecast partners) stipulate that FIA/Bernie have to meet certain 'performance' criteria, such as having leading teams, drivers, sponsors, etc, in the competition and that they would therefore have an out if Bernie et al could not meet these stipulations?
If not the dude or dudette who negotiated that particular contract ought to find another job....
Otherwise it's brilliant news. I, like most fans I expect, don't watch Formula 1 per se, I watch the teams and drivers, and whichever championship banner they choose to drive under has no bearing whatsoever on whether I engage with the sport. Surely Max understood this? Because certainly the teams do!
As for the budget cap, what a pants idea. One of the things I love about F1 -- or whatever the new championship is going to be called -- is that it is ridiculously expensive. I don't expect to EVER be able to play the game, I can only watch (in awe). Having worked in the music biz for the past decade F1 is my new rock 'n' roll.
"Next on Men & Motors it's round one of the Formula Zero championship, live from Oulton Park"
I knew the MTC was way too big to just make a few cars. And it looks like it is from a James Bond film
I just got into to work and read the story on ITV website then came here to see what Sidepodcasters have to say.
I didnt think it would come to this. I thought the FIA would of back down by now.
I hope Williams dont get left out in the cold after all this. Also I wouldnt like to see 2 competing series. I just want "1" top of the food chain motorsport series to follow.
oops wrong thread. silly mobile doohickey.
There is a press release on the FOTA site with today's date on it but I can't get it to load.
it goes up to 11.
This is a ludicrous move.
History repeating itself. Should somebody not have made a quick call to Tony George and/or Gerry Forsythe?
F1 has a unique place in sport right now, it commands big audience numbers at a time when almost every global event and league is losing viewers. Diluting the brand even marginally is commercial madness right now. I really do hope this is brinkmanship and one final effort to force Max's hand.
In the middle of a recession the turkeys may have just voted for Christmas.
Dex
Remember when Alonso to Ferrari was the big news? Seems a long way ago now.
They cannot stipulate which teams will race because teams come and go. I think though a few TV company lawyers may want a word with Bernie.
I'm Schocked people still read the ITV site :D
2 series might not happen, but at least we know half of f1 is serious about change
I'm surprised that a breakaway series is actually a very real possibility now, as of today. It just seems rather bizarre. All they had to do was extend the Concorde Agreement (they've had a long time to do that), agree on a budget cap amount and everything would've been fine.
Williams will be OK. They will move if the new series happens
RAI could probably stipulate they must have ferrari becuse of the ferrari content deals they have.
But contracts always have clauses for major changes, acts of god e.t.c..
That's like me saying I like Luca Di Montezemolo just for the sake of something. I don't think I could do it.
The teams wanted more power and more money, they hated the idea of a budget cap, and the rest of the dealings were far more complicated than just the disagreements which started the fiasco
They had to do something. The alternative is to let Max have a free hand. We have had enough manipulated championships and enough money go out of the sport. 50% of the money that the sport makes goes to a bunch of suits who have not added a penny to its value.
If it happens it will kill "real" F1 pretty quickly if they expect people to pay the same money to go and watch their no-name teams race. No circuit is going to want to pay hosting fees when they know no one will show up
Is it strange that FOTA's site runs on Drupal?
http://drop.io...otas-website-down-png
China dont seem to mind :P
Ive got it loaded, there is a video on there...is that new?
old.
You have to understand what is involved in the budget cap. It is not just a financial limit. Teams have to tell the FIA who is going to get what amount of money for what for a full year ahead. Teams have to name all their personnel and can't change them without FIA permission. If the FIA decides it doesn't like the price of an item it can arbitrarily assign a vale to it. The FIA wants to put five of its people into each team to monitor what is going on at the team's expense.
The final audited acccounts would not be ready until two months after the championship is finished. Do you want to see the champiosnhip change hands two months after the season ends? Imagine the appeals and legal action afterwards. We could have court cases going on now trying to decide who was the 2007 champion.
The thought of Sky, Setanta or any of those.......satelite-type broadcasters getting their hands on this is enough to make me cry. Don't do it. : (
I got the front page to load and clicked on the press release and crashed the site
I think MAx's plan to have a standard engine rebadged as each manufacturer terrified the teams. I cant see them trusting him or the FIA untill he is replaced.
David Croft audio on BBC F1....
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8108488.stm
I cant get it to load either
That's just what formula Cosworth will be
It won't happen. Bernie wanted to do that but the sponsrs insist on free to air TV in major markets. It will not go to pay TV
The teams wont do that, at least not at first, sponsor money is too important to them, and if they are in competition with F1, viewing figures as well.
IPTV anyone?
He has in the past suggested identical cars and having all the drivers employed by the FIA. The man is barking mad.
The press release just loaded
http://www.tea...9-06-19/press-release
and what of FiF1? They have a technical partnership with McLaren
He essentially wanted GP2 cars with bigger engines didn't he?
thanks, worked perfectly
Normally I wouldn't copy and paste a full item but in this case I can't see FOTA objecting
FOTA UNITED ON THE FUTURE
Silverstone, 18 June 2009 - Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport.
Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport.
In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future.
Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.
The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA.
The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise.
It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship.
These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.
The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.
here also, if it doesn't load:
http://www.f1m...united-on-the-future/
They will move as well
or that :)
Effective, tough - they made their position clear when they submitted a unconditional entry.
No. F2. He wants them centrally run
Remember Ferrari and their Formula GP3 comment?
It has come true.
Bah, doohickey was still on 19th... sorry about that :(
It has a long way to go before it happens
All this mention of breakaways has now made me want a choccie biscuit.
Damn. :(
i guess the best news is christine has more content for 'days that shook the f1 world'.
doh.
F1 has its biggest news stories in years and James Allen is blogging about Paddy power paying out on Jenson and Brawn as champions...
Thank you for saving us Mr Legard
Hope that was a joke. :P
So let me get this straight.
I sleep, and when I wake up, the breakaway's already happened?!
Oh my.
Steven is right - this may or may not push through. But FOTA would only have been brave enough to do this if they had Bernie with them. And Max would know that. The question is, is he willing to sacrifice his power to get the teams back? Because that's the only thing that will make them come back now.
You should have known it wasnt safe!
He didn't expect anything to happen Thursday night - everyone was expecting any announcement to be made on Friday morning.
As things stand, FOTA got it right - they'll have all of the Friday headlines to themselves. The FIA will just be an afterthought.
I wonder if Lola will join FOTA to make 9...
I won't be able to get this out of my head all race weekend. No one will be/
Key word here: promoters. That's why I believe they have Bernie on their side.
not for the first time. silverstone lose out due to press-release friday.
track action will now be an afterthought.
At least you got some sleep. Christine barely got to sleep when Mr C woke her by saying oh dear or something similar when he read the story
ha ha, lol.
Of course, if the current situation were to become a stage musical (Shakespearean in timbre I'm sure) it would be written in the key of D-minor, the saddest key of all.
great spot!
Yup. Scott will be right in the thick of the action - if I was jealous of him yesterday, I am downright envying him now.
Righty ho.
Happy thoughts for bed time for me.
Got to be up early to go check out the potential offices tomorrow morning.
Night chaps and chapesses
Here is my illustrated diagram of the politics in F1 in the form of a bowl of spaghetti:
http://drop.io...t/asset/spagraphi-jpg
a mess, all threaded within each other, all stuck in betwene each others problems, and us the fans stuck in the middle of it wondering what on eath is going on.
spagraphi's are the future.
It makes Bernie's Friday morning statement about Donington last year look irrelevant
but... the release also says:
"The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA. "
so commercial rights holder not equal promoter?
Why did they release this new when the UK should be asleep?
they released this as fast as it was decided. is my guess.
Once they sort out the fundamentals Williams and FIF1 will join up and then they will look at new teams
Prime time for the most important folk, obviously!
Dividing CVC and Bernie perhaps? If so i smell lawsuits dressed in green..
:D
Croft on BBC2
Night Flibster.
Hmmm... you may be right, Mr C. But they can't run this on their own, can they? They'd need someone to run it for them on the commercial side.
Croft says he spoke to a FOTA official who said they have a list of circuits, and have done study's on what A1gp and other series did wrong
They appear to be prepared
Croft just said that FOTA have said they will have lower prices for fans
A-ha! You may be on to something there.
But even if Bernie joins them, if he's joining without CVC, then the contracts don't go with Bernie, do they? Would they be contracted to CVC or FOM? If they're contracted to FOM, CVC's in a heap of doodoo.
Nice Lukeh
Oh my. A list of circuits... Monaco should be on there, but what else could be there?
Yay!
Williams and FIF1 will probably be hoping they don't become second-class citizens in a FOTA series.
So that max and Bernie can't respond before the papers are printed. So that every reporter at the circuit tomorrow will be wound up about it. And to make sure Max and Bernie can't get into the paddock without being harrassed
*prays Silverstone will be there*
No yay for Amy if they don't come near me :(
it wouldn't be a WORLD championship if they didn't.
You're being spoilt having a gp right in your own city!
only because I moved here!
I don't think so. They didn't just decide this at midnight. Several drivers during the week mentioned breakaways and when you look at who they were it is now clear they were trailing the story. This is like Bernie announcing Donington on Friday morning at Silverstone last year. This is timed for effect and impact.
Montreal
Imola
Magny-Cours (Yes, seriously)
Spa
Singapore
Shanghai (again, yes)
They ***** better! I've been saving up! Grrrr Boooo
i'm sure they will go to Aussie Amy :) surely they wouldn't just not go there and exclude all those fans.
This makes donnington virtually dead surely?
Ha! you should have seen the tv coverage untill about a year ago!
It makes Simon Gillet gutted. I am delighted for him.
Pauli is not a happy camper. I am really worried we will miss out.
I suspect Bernie is behind the whole thing. I have said that all along and posted a similar comment on Joes blog earlier tonight. All the politics and especially the breakaway drives down CVC's value. Bernie will do 'the decent thing' and buy the rights form them at a much lower price than he paid for them and in a couple of years flog them off again
A lot of them are contracted to FOM. If this will happen, they need Bernie on their side. Good circuits currently not contracted to Bernie are Silverstone, Imola, Zandvoort, Algarve, Magny-Cours, and Indianapolis. Monaco already implied that they'd join a breakaway.
It is not beyond them to run the commercial side.
But if they do this without Bernie, they might not do it at Melbourne.
Adelaiiiiiiiide!
They can still run other events, apart from the street circuits, having an f1 contract doesnt mean you cant run other series.
I have told you before. There will be a British GP at Silverstone next year
But you do still believe Bernie is behind this. That just about speaks for itself.
If and when Bernie join them, your prediction would've been right on the money. Again.
AND we get a FOTA British GP at Silverstone too. And you'd be right. Again.
:D
See earlier comment.
i honestly can't see them doing it without Bernie...or maybe i should say i can't see Bernie not tagging along...
I expect they will insist on at least a say in it
I would've thought FOM would've locked them in to avoid racing breakaway championships? Similar to how MotoGP/WSBK do it?
Perhaps now, yes. Not without the GPWC though.
Add Long Beach to my circuit list. Not gonna happen but it would be great.
I hope. But they have a contract with the silly V8s
I don't like the sound of having to pay for flights and accommodation again ;)
Yeah, precisely the time Max was getting a good whipping. Hurt me FOTA!
It has been all along. It's just Gillett hasn't figured it out yet. It is an ex-F1 circuit. It has ceased to be.
Please don't tell me you don't recognise the dead parrot sketch Christine
Think he might stop being so touchy about the use of "F1" as a word?
Definitely, they would, but they'd need a point person to run this. He won't need to own it, he'd just run it.
Unless it's Bernie - in which case, things change.
i think he might retire.
oh yeah i'd forgotten you'd said that. maybe you should remind me every so often so i don't get all upset that i wont get to be there on a race weekend. :D
Awww. Poor Amy. That said, I'm pretty sure Bernie will tag along, and if he does, they'll race in Melbourne. :)
They ** better be somewhere here.
Now, the question is - what do the broadcasters do?
If I remember correctly, one of the broadcasters said they'd ask for a review of their contract if something like this happened.
Will they manage to wriggle out of their contracts so that they can cover the breakaway instead?
In particular, what will the BBC do? They're only 1 year into their contract!
Good choice. Long Beach would be awesome. I wouldn't be surprised if it is on FOTA's list. Chris Pook hates Bernie so they could have had discussions with him knowing it wouldn't get back to the poisoned dwarf
ahahah :D :D
Move but not until it is finalised
Never mind an F1 circuit, it has ceased to be much of any kind of circuit at all, with all the work underway.
That is not going to happen. He will die working.
I suspected as much from that pre FOTA meeting lunch on Flav's Gin Palace
:D
They all will. Especially when you look at what they pay for them
Hi, first time comenting. had to join in considering the news.
If I was bernie i would be dying to join the break away or there would be a lot of people wanting a lot of money back such as broadcasters or new circuits.
My mind may explode.
I do hope he has some sort of succession plan in place, though.
welcome to the comments Dan :)
Hi Dan! What a great time to join!
Exactly what we're thinking, especially Steven. We see Bernie just having to join the breakaway. Follow the money...
Great timing!
I thijnk they sorted it out enough to run at the moment, but the new pits seem unlikely to be much more than a pit for the foreseeable future
Hey Dan. Glad you are joining in. We always need more commenters. My belief is Bernie engineered the whole thing since Max forgot his position after he was paid - allegedly
He thinks he is immortal
That is all good and well, but he STILL needs someone to take over.
Interesting combo :D Hope the 2 arent related, Join in the wake/ baptism fun!
Uh-oh.........
I would say his daughters, but surely they are best dressed in white ;)
I've been lurking for a little bit. Felt it was a good time to join in. :D
christine's did. either that or she went back to sleep. hi dan.
This is * seriously* effecting my work productivity today.
Im so glad Silverstone has free practice at sensible times :D
Anything but them. FOTA will not let them be involved
Christine has gone back to sleep? how can she sleep now? i feel like i've just drunk 4 espressos.
To use Rachel's phrase from the other day you have delurked
pass...
:D I think it was Tamara who tried proposing a show to ITV which run along the lines of one of Paris Hilton's shows. I don't want them running this sport...
Brilliant time to join. There'll be a LOT to talk about this weekend.
I like that word - delurked... Hmmm...
Some things you just do not explain.
But you're here... and it just before 11 AM there. How are you joining us - via mobile?
Could you have this much political fun with any other sport?
:D :D :D
For those who didn't get my alleged payment comment I give you the following. The site that originally carried the story is no longer around but I have my own source.
I'm on my secondment at work with unrestricted internet :D
CART/IRL tried it, and failed miserably.
Le Mans came close with that scrutineering mess last Friday.
But nothing like this. Nothing like this at all.
I don't think you could have this much political fun with goverment polictics!
How do you get a job like that?
this isn't a split. this is a breakaway.
they're taking the ball, the net, the flags and the pitch and they're going to play somewhere else.
BINGO!
VERY good point there.
ahh wrong thread again
Or the same place, but at a different time and the oldies arent allowed through the gate :D
It's not related to the topic anyway. Keep it there.
BTW, I remember Mr C and Christine poking a little fun at me earlier today for saying it would be settled on Friday.
Did you have some of what I was having, Mr C? ;)
you call this settled?
i call this is taking a very big spoon and stirring the pot vigorously.
Is Monza out of contract next year? I notice it's not confirmed for next year on Wikipedia.
Monza, Silverstone, Monaco and Indianapolis would be a huge kick in the teeth - it's more than half of the 1950 season.
OK, I am here
I'm calling Max to stay. And to somehow get re-elected. Nothing can beat that man.
:D I like that metaphor - a lot! That said...
If Max doesn't include the provisional 5 in next year's entry list tomorrow, the matter is settled. It isn't a question of discussion anymore, it's a revolution.
exactly
Hehe. No wings, more passing!
you know who is in a contract for a long period? valencia.
you know who else? hungary!
YEEES!
no way will it be settled tomorrow. No way.
More like one of those big outboards you see in the Monaco harbour
No fair! I start an F1 blog and 6 hours later F1 falls apart!
;-)
heeeh!
Hi Wolf
Not that it matters in a breakaway. That said...
If FOTA will do a breakaway, which motorsport body will accredit them? The FIA won't do it (obviously), but doesn't someone need to accredit them so they can race?
:D
Hey! Wouldn't that make for an explosive first entry?
I need to thank journeyer for making me remove F1 from my blog title!
hang on to your hat, Mr C. We have yet to see where Bernie is... ;)
This will run for ages yet
Much obliged. :D
Willing to stick your neck out and predict how it'll end? You've been right on the money so far...
right. time to get some work done. night all who are in night time!
no more vacations for Martin Brundle? ;)
At least you have something to write about
later, Amy. :)
and then run some more. should we pick a date? i'm thinking september.
the breakaway may be the story of the day, but my problem is that the only pub around here serves no food :-)
how about october? that's when the FIA elections happen.
:D
It took longer to get the header working
The FIA have to. Max has said they would. The EU are desperate for a fight with the FIA
a bit late to be launching a new series though?
Now is a bit late to be launching a new series, to be honest...
But if it's a question of timing, it needs to be earlier than September, I guess. Maybe the summer break in August?
Ooooh. Was this part of the FIA-EU dispute some years back?
That would put Max in a world of hurt, wouldn't it?
If Max doesn't act to prevent this, the members of the FIA will. This isn't over by a long shot.
I hope a breakaway. I would love to see Max and the FIA cut out of all but safety and licensing. Depends on Max now
I see you mentioned tracks here. but anybody talked about the teams for the new series ? 8 teams does not seem to be enough ... how will Williams react ?
The members of the FIA who voted for Max during Spankgate? Unless someone hands them a spine, it won't happen.
Lola dropped their 2010 F1 bid - I'm guessing they will join them to make 9.
Williams and FIF1 will have to join this series. But they believe their contracts are "watertight". We'll see what they do...
Next move belongs to Max. Either he announces that the 5 conditional entries are out of the championship and he is going to take action to force Ferrari and the Red Bull 2 to enter or he moves the deadline again
Phone a pizza plce and get them to deliver to the pub
Yep
OK: My attempt at a FOTA calendar :
Classic tracks:
Monza, Monnaco, Silverstone, Spa, Montreal, USA, Australia
Circuits comercialy important to the teams
BMW- German Circuit
Brawn-
Ferrari-: Abu Dhabi
Mclaren: Bahrain
Renault- French circuit
Red Bull- A1 Ring* Delayed
Toyota: Fuji
then 5- 7 others to fill the year
Williams and FIF1 ill jump once there is a genuine breakaway and thanks to Max there are a number of other teams ready with F1 projects who are peed off at him for not choosing them like Prodrive
If Max loses F1 they lose their nice days out
But Prodrive haven't done a Lola and dropped their bid. Surely they'd be on the list tomorrow?
And I'm sure Max will sue, sue, sue to keep Ferrari and Red Bull on board.
Lola can't have been THAT serious if they were shutting down their operation. I'm sure they were saying last Friday that they were hopeful they'd still get a place.
Which is why I suspect (as many others do) that they'll be FOTA's 9th team.
N.Technology were not very pleased with the way the FIA handled applications, I think I know which way they would go. Have Lola withdrawn earlier in the week with an eye on this very possibility?
Max possibly tried to be clever with the selection of the three new teams but he left some strong contenders feeling very pee'd off at being left out.
Prodrive can still pull out as can any of the knew teams
yeah, expecting to see Prodrive, Lola,?????
They shut down their F1 project a couple of days ago. No point spending money on it if they didn't get selected.
I realy hope they do, id rather have them and N.Tech over Force India any day.
Is FOTA against customer cars, or was that the FIA (or both)?
But why shut it down when you're this close? Do you think they'll join FOTA?
Williams and FIF1 will be next. Then FOTA have a free choice. I would guess they would want A1 GP and Prodrive out ofthe new teams
But they still could is what I'm saying.
A1GP? Do you mean USGP?
I think that was Frank's bizzare policy standpoint
Hmmm. OK.
Also, they've ditched Williams and Force India (without having to try!) - the main obstacle to customer teams. It's their rules...
THe FIA wanted them. Williams objected. It was all pre-FOTA
oooh. that is a great point.
Actually i take that back, but the teams might see it that way, their betrayal was worse than Williams.
I completely forgot about USF1... they have been a little screwed.
I wonder what Peter Windsor will have to say...
i can just imagine all the circuits in the world now hosting F1 running down FOTA's door offering a contract...
Gives them a stronger negotiating position. It depends how FOTA structures its championship. I would like a set of rules that allowed anyone with an elegible car to enter. If they can't qualify or pre-qualify tough
Yes.
I was planning a nice little snack when this story broke. No wonder I am hungry now
:D Go get a snack - not like much else will happen tonight.
Quite the explosive start to my Friday, though. :D
And I should be working, which since I'm self-employed means I'll probably be hungry all next week.... At least I'll have the Aussie sunshine and a cracker of an F1 weekend ahead. It's only half eleven and it feels like beer o'clock already.
i hear ya! Lunchtime almost in Brisbane, and home time is looking ever closer with that great news!
The Brawn dominance this year has somewhat dilapidated Max's ability to divide and conquer amongst the big teams with contraversial decisions.
And on that bombshell... I must sleep ahead of FP1
wish i could know what the Force india guy says in FP2, but im sure i will catch it on here :D
also a good point there. hmmm.
Yup - and Brawn is on FOTA's side too. Ross Brawn's masterpiece of a season may be FOTA's ace under their sleeve.
Not that Max didn't try - remember the DDD issue? That seems like ages ago now.
I think it was a master stroke to make Luca head of FOTA. I didn't like it one bit at the time but it stops Ferrari stabbing everyone else in the back as usual. Rumour has it that it was Ron Dennis's idea. I am sure that it won't be lost on Max that his back is against the wall as a result of a clever political move by Ron.
Oh joy
If that's true, Ron Dennis will have a pretty big smile on his face wherever he is right now. And he'd be sipping a glass of champers too...
Can we point it out to him just in case he did miss it?
Maybe now's not the best time to be doing it... ;)
I am going through some serious NBA Finals withdrawal especially with the rain delayed US Open, but now I have something to be entertained by.
Is there anything preventing new 2010 teams from abadoning ship with the FIA? It will be interesting to see if there is any courting by FOTA on that front. That'd be both the ultimate leveridge over the FIA or the just what you'd want to do if they were serious about a good, new championship. And why would any new team wan to join a shell of the old F1? I can't see how that would ever be commercially viable for them--is clear the cache of the sport on all fronts is with the FOTA teams and drivers.
Is it too late to get a huge banner with check mate on it?
Sorry to go all pantomime but oh yes it is
Article from Turon Sanomat available here:
http://www.kim...d162f2e238bd6ea22918e
A1-Ring? I thought that circuit was long gone...
This just makes things better. Our F1 rules guru Alianora is at Silverstone which is a shame because she knows the rules better than anyone but my understanding is that the new teams who have entered have not paid an entry fee yet. They have to pay $390,000 by November. Failure to pay that results in them being disqualified frm the championship. So if they want to follow FOTA all they need to do is not pay the FIA. Fabulous
Ooooh... Very interesting, indeed...
THe buildings were knocked down but the track itself still exists. It would need a lot of work to make it ready.
I like that you are checking out the FInnish press.
Buenos Aires I doubt. Fuji I don't want. Philip Island is not up to F1 standard. Neither is Losail.
Those plus A1 Ring make five. Even if you remove those 5, you still have 14 circuits left. I wouldn't discount the possibility of Singapore or Albert Park jumping ship.
A1 is owned by Red Bull now, and he has been in legal battles over redeveloping of the circuit into a full on motorsport precinct, but some Austrian dude has his lederhoesen in a twist
Surely they're tied in now, unless formal agreements have yet to be signed (surely Max didn't dally?). It'll be interesting to see if any of the reserve teams do a Lola and pull out tomorrow before they can be bumped up the list.
Imola is definitely available for next year. Monza would drop F1 for FOTA if they can.
Has Peter Windsor said anything, BTW? I doubt it.
didnt someone predict early on in this battle that the "contracted teams" such as Ferrari and Red Bull could just enter B Teams, with practice drivers, spend no money on R & D etc until they are out of contract?????
Ah - hooray for a lame duck FIA!
I think he is asleep! otherwise he is having nightmares!
Joe's take on the story.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21569.html
There are plenty circuits that can be used. We discussed some earlier that are not on the list. Imola, Long Beach and Estoril spring to mind. Ricardo Torme in Valencia
Any ideas what the new series might be called?
I thought Imola was on the list? I'd pick Algarve over Estoril. Long Beach would be very nice. :D
Mugello would be pretty desperate too.
I don't think they would want to travel the whole world at first, predominantly Europe with a number of stops in North America grouped together makes more sense. Organising a whole new series that takes in Australia, Japan and South America at this stage would be some achievement.
They haven't paid an entry and as far as I know haven't signed a legal contract unless the entry can be conceived to be a contract. I can't see any court agreeing that losing every major name in F1 is not force majeure. I am sure they can walk.
I don't really care to be honest. It would be interesting to see if the GPMA registed the GPWC which was what the championship was going to be called until Ferrari stabbed the others in the back and tookthe money
Long Beach would be very sweet because the only reason it is not in F1 is because Bernie tried to play hard ball with Chris Pook and lost.
i think that the circuits will have in their contratcs that a certain calibre of teams must be present also, e.g Ferrari and McLaren, or the FIA is in breach of contract????
I mean, really, Bernie fines the circuits when a someone farts outside the gates!
If that is true then there was no reason for Lola to pull out, unless they had no choice in the matter.
I am not sure on that Mav. They would not want to Max to be able to say it was not a real world championship
Lola believed that their chance had gone so they announced that they had stopped working on their F1 car.
Key word: F1. I don't think we've seen the last of Lola.
Depending on where Bernie ends up, we still have a number of countries that may end up in play - Korea, India among them.
Wiliams can now dominate F1?
I am sure Bernie's phone will be red hot with circuits and broadcasterswho want to express displeasure that they have paid all that money. I am sure all of them want to re-negotiate now and have lawyers on stand by
Assuming they stay in F1...
Which may be why Bernie may be forced to join the breakaway.
Williams will go with FOTA. They won't mak any announcement until a breakaway is reality. Right now they are in a good negotiating position
I think Bernie is responsible for the breakaway.
What needs to happen for it to become a reality?
ITV have just noticed. Must have been on an ad break...
That depends on Max now. If Max concedes enough ground they will all live happily ever after till the next dispute. If he doesn't it will happen.
I knew it was late but the birds outside just started tweeting.
the birds in the UK use Twitter? thats awesome!
They must have got the news from ITV
I was going to put a punchline on it but I decided to leave it for someone else.
One of them put #maxout at the end of its message
hahaha
Ah - what a great day :). Still excited!
I'm rather saddened that it has come to this
true, but at the same time, what choice did the teams have really? the McLaren thing has really shown that the FIA wont listen to reason and dont really care about the state of the sport!
I hope the breakaway happens. I have argued for years that it was needed and that the current structure is worng. The president of the FIA should never be involved in sport at all except as an absolute last resort. Instead the incumbent spends all his time messing with it and annoying everybody.
F1 should be and independent body and the FIA should only be involved in licences and safety as it is at Le Mans or any other championship. The idea that it is involved in day to say management of the championship is ludicrous. The fact that it gave away a cash cow for a few magic beans means it is by definition incompetent to run a multi-billion dollar business.
It has gone very quiet. Nothing to see.
im eationg lunch, but it seems the rest of the world is asleep for a big news day tomorrow GMT
Lunch down under? I can't wait for the US news sources to ignore this story
I think everyone is grabbing some sleep before practise starts in 6 hours time
i hear ya! we have a race down here, and it would take a minor miracle for the Aussie press to run an F1 story! We refer to Webber as "F1 champ, Webber". I know he is a great guy and all, but F1 Champ?????
There is nothing for them to report until we get Max's next move
I just finished watching "I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here", I hate myself
Max is tied up
Pictures please, oh wait we already had those
yeah, not while im eating!
G'day all. Just thought I'd check the F1 news while I had a spot of lunch. OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!
I must say I am conflicted. While emotionally I support the teams in this dispute, logic tesll me a breakaway series won't work.
Apologies for being late to the party!
Too true. Great comment Steven.
Delurking to comment.
If FOTA, in the setup of their breakaway series, is successful in convincing the new/smaller teams that their series will lead to success, the net effect will be to bounce Max and the FIA, and neuter Bernie. They may still be able to do this, if they are able to muscle the FIA/CVC out of their sponsors/racetracks, leaving the smaller privateers no real choice but to switch.
If, on the other hand, there end up being 9 teams in one series, and 8 in the other, with the current powers stuck straddling the two, we have armageddon.
It isn't really a breakaway or a split. It is just like a football team getting a new manager.
Thanks Mike
Hmm, let's look at FOTA. 8 teams; 5 of which are owned by car manufacturers, 2 owned by a soft drinks company, and Brawn - who have no sponsorship. With Renault and Toyota recently making noises about the value of the racing programs, it doesn't sound very stable to me. What heppens if any of the 5 manufacturers does a Honda (or Ford)? Can Red Bull sustain 2 teams? I can easily foresee FOTA down to 5 or 6 members pretty quickly. You can't run a major chapionship with 10-12 cars. What's more, the FIA believes it has watertight contrcats with RBR, STR and Big Red. The legal battles alone would tie up any new championship for at least a year. Doesn anyone really think they can get a new series started in time for 2010?
I love all the delurking that is happening tonight and I hope now that so many have started to comment you will all keep doing it. The more people we have commenting the more interesting it is for everyone.
If the split goes ahead you have one champioship with all the teams and Monaco against an offical championship where no-one outside serious fans has heard of anyone.
Williams and FIF1 will switch to FOTA as soon as the championship is definite. Then there are a whole host of new F1 teams out there who are tremendously annoyed at Max for not choosing them. THe FOTA championship will work if it happens.
Surely Monaco and Silverstone :-)
Yep, get Prodrive in to run as Astin Martin. And perhaps FIF1 can get sponsorship from Tata and rename themselves Jaguar...(semi-joke). It would be hilarious if they could convince USF1 to jump sides.
Logistically (extremely) difficult but not impossible. I'd buy a ticket for the Australian GP today if FOTA put them on sale, whether it's held in Melbourne, Adelaide or on the Gold Coast.
I think it's a definite goer and Max has well and truly overplayed his hand. Even if Max keeps the teams in F1 it must now be under a deal very much in favour of FOTA, which is a win either way -- for the teams and one hopes the fans.
We had a look at circuits earlier on and there are many that could be used but Monaco is the only one that has announced that it will follow the teams
All sorts of possibilities
i think at the end of the day, this will just be the nail in FIA's mismanagement of the sport, and there will be one, properly run series, with the FOTA teams and the 2 FIA leftovers, as well as a mix of the newbies that are still brave enough to front up.
They say that they have had several meetings with tracks etc. Getting a championship set up should not be beyond them when there a so many big companies and billionaires in. Tracks will be throwing themselves st them. No circuit except Monaco makes money from F1 but FOTA could offer them the first year free and the tracks would make a fortune
So true! R u running for FOTA CEO Steven? Ur an ideas man!
It's less the tracks than the associated organisation, broadcast rights and so forth. But hey, I hope it pans out 'cos all I want is great racing and a more fan friendly sport.
Ok... i agree with Journeyman. Its all Bernies doing to get rid of CVC.
Far as i can see, if there are two championships next year, it just means theres more racing to watch, more jobs for drivers and personnel alike.
I wouldnt be overly unhappy with that.
thats true - as fans we are kind of in a win win at the moment!
I am sure they have someone lined up for that position. Maybe I should send them an application for anything they have available
That's how I see it. CVC are watching their investment go down the pan. Bernie will buy them out for a much reduced fee and the contracts will all be switched seemlessly to FOTA and Mac will be slapped for biting the hand that bought him.
That's my view as well. We have avoided a situation where the big teams are split so we will have one official championship and one top class championship
I have to be awake to watch practise in 5 hours so I am going to bed now. I can't see anything happening before I get up.
I would just ask all those of you who have commented for the first time tonight to please keep commenting. The more voices we have the more interesting the conversation is even if at times the comments come in too fast to read. Those of you who have been lurking for a while will have seen that no-one has ever joined in the chat and been unhappy that they have. Everyone has enjoyed themselves. No-one expects you all to be like Amy and be hosting a show six weeks after your first comment but all of us would love it if you could even comment occasionally.
Where is Amy anyway? I know she is at work but she spends all day on the internet there.
Probably stuck working, like me.
Night Steven.
The reason I'd always heard the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach was that they were risking a lot of money to make a small profit with F1, and when they went to CART they were risking a smaller amount of money for the same amount of profit.
Agreed x 10. Welcome to everyone who's been commenting tonight. This will be quite a weekend. :)
We were asking him to run for FIA President a couple of months ago. But FOTA CEO might be even better.
Steven for FOTA CEO! :D
Yup yup! Stick around for the Silverstone weekend. We'll be live blogging the whole thing, from FP1 to the checkered flag. ;)
Working on that Excel sheet, if I'm not mistaken... She'll be back soon-ish. :)
But then, times have moved on a bit now. Does Long Beach still host IndyCar? A FOTA race would be brilliant for all concerned. And Governor Schwarzenegger has been to a couple of F1 races in the past...
Hmmm.
If Bernie starts working with FOTA on a breakaway championship, then CVC might have him for a serious conflict of interest?
Unless Bernie brings CVC with him - but CVC are really the elephant in the room in all this.
I know all the noise is about rules and cost caps, but I suggest that the commerical issues, and how much money the teams are getting from Bernie are just as important to the FOTA teams - possibly even more important. Would FOTA want to saddle themselves with CVC's debts?
We're guessing either CVC sells out to him before then, or they'd want him to join the breakaway because that's where the money is...
I don't think anyone would ever have to convince Bernie to go where the money is :P
Too true! :D
Dex! I fully agree. I still cannot believe how a series as fantastic as the old champcar series was brought to its knees.
Heaven knows, the FIA leadership has been woeful over the years - so maybe the FOTA championship will turn out to be a good thing.
BUT - FOTA will have many challenges to overcome if it is to have a long term future. Not least of which is the question of how will a series run by and for the manufactures going to appeal to private teams? How many of the current Manufactures really want a long term commitment to this? And how will FOTA unity cope during the next 'diffuser' type row?
And how many sponsors will want anything to do with F1 (either series) after all this (in the current financial climate).
The big danger for both the FIA and FOTA championships is that the people with money will stay out until we see which championship succeeds and which fails. As we saw with champcar, this can take many, many years – and by the time is it sorted, the money may have gone elsewhere.
We're thinking Lola and Prodrive may join them. So why not? The manufacturers are committed to each other until 2012 - at least. There's that $50M bond they have to pay if they decide to leave. FOTA unity did pretty well during the DDD mess. I think they've finally figured out how to separate such messes with governance issues.
If the current sponsors stay (and I think they will), it'll just be a matter of having a good season next year to attract new ones. Of course, if Bernie moves over (as we suspect he will), the FIA series won't have much of a future...
But would FOTA want CVC? The biggest problem with F1 right now is not how to run with a budget cap, but how much money is leeking out through CVC.
FOTA will want a bigger share TV revenue*, and they want to make sure that circuits can afford to host races, and fans can afford to but the tickets. Why does it cost £90+** to get into Silverstone? Because of Bernie and CVC, not the FIA.
* This is assuming that they will make a revemue from TV, and don't have to pay to get airtime. After all the FOTA series is a collection of manufacturs looking to promote their brand.
** have not checked the ticket price - please correct if I am wrong.
They want Bernie, not CVC. So based on what I said, the former is more likely to happen than the latter.
It'll be interesting to see how this goes...
Ooh err, excellent news.:D
Prodrive and Lola only applied to enter F1 because the budget cap made F1 financially viable for them, and gave them the opportunity to compete with the manufactures.
Will FOTA give them the same opportunities? It will be interesting to see if FOTA can attract these teams.
Of course, with a rival series in the offing, FIA F1 may no longer be financially vialbe even on a £40 bedget. This could be why Lola pulled the plug.
. I don't think ING and RBS will be around much longer. Plus Brawn will need a sponsor as well.
But why would Lola drop their bid on Tuesday, when they could've waited until Friday...?
RBS is Williams' sponsor. ING won't leave until after 2010, I think. More than enough time for Flavio to find someone to replace them...
As for Brawn, they've constantly said they're talking to a lot of companies right now. If this proves to be viable, I don't see any reason why the potential sponsors would decide to stop talking to them...
I'm only up to comment 150 and I'm raring to comment.
Before coming here, I listened to David Croft on the BBCF1 site.
General Max has lost the plot. All this FIA controlled F1 sounds a lot like Dictatorship. Having FIA police in your team looking at how you spend your money, is ridiculous.
Bernie should be kept away from the new breakaway championship at all costs. I am sure there are better people, with fairer ideals, who could make the new championship an absolute fortune.
On the other hand, the teams can't agree on technical rule changes usually, and how they're going to manage to listen to each other and run the sport fairly at the same time is beyond me.
This latest press release, is an absolute masterstroke by FOTA, and it might just be the thing that pushes General Max into listening more, and dictating less.
Has anyone here considered that there may be NO racing next year? I mean, there are so many contracts and deals to be broken that the whole year may be filled with strikes and injunctions...
There won't be any strikes. Injunctions are possible, but I think the court won't agree to them due to competition clauses and the like...
But remember even during the bitter arguing about the diffuser they managed to hold FOTA together.
There is no chance of NO racing next year. Zero.
For a start the new series can't stop Max's World Championship of B-teams.
This day has finally come.
I think we are all ignorant thinking this would never happen.
Although I side with the FOTA, one must remember that money talks. Max needs to take one of his big didos up his back-side. Just simply go away. Bernie too. We don't need their crap. I just want to watch good racing. Is that really hard for them to understand? Finally some one other than NASCAR gets it! Just race! I hate this crap! Drive the f"ing car.
italian tv this morning: F1 is dead. what a great morning....
Suppose the FOTA teams are 'forced' to turn up to an 'F1' race - they would just do an Indy 2005 wouldn't they?
They can't do an Indy 2005 - there was a safety clause back then...
They could run a B team
Have Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso withdrawn from 2010 yet?
a C team for RBR?
They can't withdraw from the entry list - Max locked them in. Sue, sue, sue...
They put up a press release saying that they hadn't entered and that the FIA had made a mistake: http://www.tea...9-06-12/press-release
So how will they break away then?
They can be in both
Anyone here actually been to a race?
I go to a different one every two years....
That kind of loyalty does not come easy.
What is Max thinking?
Either they sue to get out, or send an unfunded B-team just to make up the numbers...
Well Ferrari could modify an A1GP car I guess...
Isn't it the point of a breakaway that Ferrari 'go with the others'?
ferrari have no press release yet. i guess they're just waiting for the next move.
What are RAI and Gazzetto saying?
i missed rai this morning. but "F1 is dead" is what one tv network said.
Crofty's interview from midnight is online and available for international people.
am checking out the italian press now. i'll let you know...
Cheers Scott :)
If everything stays as it is, then the following equation applies:
f12010=gp2
Sounds about right.
drivers are tied to the teams, not F1. i wasn't aware of that.
gazetta dello sport: total breach fota-fia. birth of alternative world championship. it's a got a great picture of Bernie ;) Essentially the article appears to have nothing new/original to what's already been mentioned here and in the bbc interview with Crofty. (link is a few post back)
the english site of the newspaper is days behind in f1 news
But they don't even have to be really.
As I understand it Max gave funding to the several teams on the basis of a contract to race. As I understand it Force India and Williams made use of that money thereby making the contract binding.
Red Bull, Torro Rosso and Ferrari didn't take the money.
So now you have lawyers on one side saying that this is a binding contract because they have an agreement. And lawyers on the other saying that it isn't because no money has changed hands.
In English law it isn't a contract until money changes hands. Which is why they are desperate to work out where the jurisdiction of this contract is.
JA's analysis of the situation:
http://allenon...-f1-holds-its-breath/
He still thinks a compromise is possible, depending on what Max and Bernie do.
They'd make it clear that the others were there just for show. They might not even use the name.
Red Bull may be able to invoke that, being based in Britain - but can Ferrari? Their entire base is in Italy...
In fact, a C and a D team...
I hope we have an Aside this weekend, but that said, will Joe want to talk about this...?
It's down to where the contract is made. A lot of the world us Britain as the basis of contract law because of the straightforward nature of contract law.
Italy has all kinds of quirks in contracts. So you often find two Italian companies signing an British contract.
Ooooh... That's interesting...
http://en.wiki...ki/Peppercorn_(legal)
FOTA will need a new name. It's not FO anymore :-)
Sorry this:
" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal)
:D GPTA?
Third time lucky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal)
I'd have to agree. I think the contract I signed here was rubbish. But was mostly okay for me. the law here is strange and most contracts need to get approved by the government and well...makes sense to sign a british contract.
Obviously there is a big debate about what the FOTA teams should call their new series. I have a killer suggestion:
Formula Won
Ithangyou.
the RAI news network is carrying pretty much the same story as everyone else. so nothing to report there. but i'm reporting it anyway because i said i would....
Nico saying F1 can survive without Ferrari in the medium-term. That's about as loaded a message as it gets.
If the breakaway pushes through, would he rather become F1 champion with Williams - over a 2nd-class field? Or would he take a seat at McLaren in a FOTA championship?
Morning guys, thought I'd pop on before work after the news. Had a mad dream last night! Dreamt that FOTA had actually broken aw...
.....ah.
;) Haha! You thought last night was a dream, eh?
i had no idea until i turned on the tv this morning ;) not quite the same dream as the RBR "dreaming" that Vettel has one a race....
Maybe it was a wish for everything to just be sorted. Although I am happy about what's happened... but also sad for the history and future of F1 at the same time basically being on the edge of a cliff now.
what i meant to say was....
not quite the same dream as the RBR mechanic "dreaming" that Vettel has won a race....
forgetting english as i read italian...
Moyles gets it - he said Silverstone is hosting the last F1 British GP, but there could still be a GP here...
i doubt any driver would want to be in the dud series, but if there contract doesn't have one of those get out clauses then what you gonna do? work hard and look to switch in 12 months.
I'm listening now to RAI sport radio but any station playing vanilla ice instead of giving me news is not a good option i think
Rosberg's a free agent at the end of the year...
It's weird but this is basically the F1 righting itself after the Max and Bernie takover.
F1 used to be all about the manufacturers and then these small teams came along and wrested control from them. And now the manufacturers have come along and wrested control back.
Williams are with Bernie and Max as they were last time. What we didn't notice was that McLaren had really become Mercedes.
at the end of THIS year? convenient if so. will Lola join "Formula Won"? (nice name Alex)
Thanks. I think it will work!
yup - remember his threats at the start of the season saying he'd move to another team if Williams remain uncompetitive?
But how about Brawn??
If I were to guess, I'd say Yes.
Folks, the FIA doesn't give a damn about the breakaway:
http://en.f1-l...il/090619085701.shtml
Just after I said I was leaving to do some work we got told we were abusing the internet and they cut it off. Oops.
Brawn are Honda and FOTA are paying for their upkeep.
Think back to the beginning of the year... Williams were having trouble so the FIA got Bernie to give them some of their money in advance. Then Brawn are in trouble and instead FOTA gave Honda the money.
yeah me too. you in their right mind signs up for F1, and then takes the "mini F1" option without the fans. with no team loyalties and two (?) named teams with a few fans, why would you bother...
Good point...
These are indeed some of the concerns over the FOTA series.
One of the lessons from the CART/IRL split is that, with two series available, the manufactures can play one series against the other if they don't get their way.
For example, after the split, Champcar ran on quite happily for a couple of years. Then, when they were trying to frame a new set of engine regulations, a couple of the manufactures didn't like the proposals, and so jumped ship to the IRL, and took their teams with them.
OK, so the F1 manufactures are much more integrated to FOTA than they were to Champcar, but they each have their own agenda, and you never know what might happen in a couple of years time.
Thanks for teaching me about peppercorn payments
great photo. bernie saying "hit the road max". now to read....
The bond between the manufacturers not to leave will probably kill any chance of this happening - in the first 5 years anyway. By then, we'll probably have a single series standing, one way or the other...
hehe. Internet police (that's me!)
The FIA confirmed that the deadline for unconditional entries into the FIA Formula One World Championship remain unchanged with entries to be submitted by this evening and that the entry list will be published on Saturday.
saturday annoucement? ooh i thought the annoucement was today. so between practice sessions just to keep us amused over 90 minutes?
I guess not...
Max would rather have a bunch of teams he can easily control than the best teams available...
Cheers Scott ;)
The theory from Renault is that without CVC Formula Won could be a profit centre.
Nico will only ever be world champion of "Most Beautiful Man-Hair"!
Of course he would. Just as I suspected. This has a long way to go. Max will need to be tossed out somehow. I suspect he will use this as a reason to stand for another term as well
Absolutely.
So when will we hear from Mr E? That's the one that would be most interesting...
i think most of the news stories today will be quotes in english that are picked up by all the media outlets. unless ferrari give a press release today, but i suspect that most teams will keep quiet and let FOTA present the united front.
Lou gave me an idea last night to photoshp and I just had to do it before I popped off to work as well concerning this
http://drop.io...cast/asset/kitkat-jpg
106 calories?! ;) Nice one!
;)
http://www.gri...08/05/emp-2042424.jpg
Australian Report:
"GP Corp and the State Government have downplayed fears Melbourne's race won't happen due to a rebel F1 competition.
Grand Prix Corporation chief executive Drew Ward tried to calm fears by saying the threat by seven top F1 teams to go it alone is just the latest round of a long running battle over budgets between the racers and supremos Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley.
"We have every faith Formula 1 management will reach a satisfactory resolution and... the Australian Grand Prix will happen next year in March,'' he said. "
"Contracts are in place to have a Formula 1 Grand Prix in Melbourne.''
This does not downplay my fears, this reinforces that I have no desire to go to a B-team race.
i agree. it does little to do anything. people have been concerned over the cost of that race for years. lack of spectators won't help.
That just about sums up the state of F1 at the moment...
Mr. Ward doesn't know who he's dealing with, does he?
Oh, and Amy:
http://www.bbc...s/4724/2/#gallery4724
Ooooh, someone tweeted:
Can someone get that on the telly? Pleeeeease. :D
From our other newspaper:
Former Formula One world champion and A1 Team Australia boss Alan Jones said if Ferrari and McLaren-Mecedes refused to race next year Melbourne shouldn't bother holding a race.
"They're established names with a huge following. If they don't turn up people are just going to say 'Well what's the point'," he said.
Smart man.
VERY smart man. And someone who won't hold back in giving an opinion.
Can't you watch it on the BBC F1 site
Wow I picked the wrong night for sleep :D
I've tired to read through but there are over 400 comments, so if someone could just answer this questions I'd appreciate it :)
Why do people believe Williams will go with FOTA and the breakaway, when Frank has said they weren't suspended but rather expelled from FOTA?
I don't, for one.
Because chances are, it's FOTA's championship that will survive rather than the FIA's. And they exist to race...
Could they get the best new times to enter the FOTA championship to get one up on the FIA
*teams
You could build a car to break down on the first lap.
But look at the arguing. What would have happened if FOTA had to rule on the situation itself?
Maybe because they have first hand experience of the Cart/IRL split? Lola have a healthy business to protect - unlike Williams, they don't need to race if F1. Perhaps the prospect gave them cold feet about the fiancial viability of the FIA series.
But they would've just wasted a lot of money. They'd be better off putting that investment to good use...
Good point, right now Formula One is collapsing in on its self.
No doubt though a meeting will be held between FOTA and the FIA/Bernie today, hopeful this can be still be averted.
That is entirely possible, particulary Prodrive who could use Mercedes engines :D
FIA just released a statement basically blaming the teams and telling them to F off. But where will Bernie be in all this?
I wouldn't bet just yet. That's exactly what Champ Car thought at the time
first i must say, i agree with "AJ", as a former champ of F1, he's constantly argued with f1 management about teh australian race and wasn't even invited last year. he is not a fan and will relish the chance for a boot.
and McLaren chassis, if customers are allowed?
Exactly. The Crappy championship with the no-names won (mostly because they had the Indy 500)
ooh on my sports news now. The news guy blinks a lot.
But ah! Monaco have implied they'd side with a breakaway. Is that a good sign for FOTA?
If they go through with it. What makes Monaco want to side with FOTA anyway?
Monaco is still 1 race, not a 1month defining feature of the championship. I don't think it holds as much sway.
Why would they announce they'd create a breakaway if they can't pull it off? They must've known Max was more likely to not budge.
Why would Monaco side with them? Probably because of the names like Ferrari and McLaren... And their drivers who'll be moving with them.
The FOTA breakaway should suceed, think of the people/team bosses involved in this, most of them have been in F1 for a while now and have contacts which will get their series off the ground.
If it goes ahead I don't think Bernie will have time to sue them, he will have to deal with television companies wanting out, circuits wanting to end their contracts. It will be a nightmare for him, right now Bernie is the only one who can get the two sides to come together, even if it is to save himself.
It does, in that all the high-flying VIPs want to go to Monaco. If Monaco sided with FOTA, would the FIA have any race that could compete with Monaco in terms of the glitz and glamour?
Okay... Everyone sitting comfortablely...
Cast your mind back to May last year.
A scandal emerges around Max Mosley.
Mercedes, Honda, BMW and Toyota ask for Max Mosley to step down.
Renault doesn't but has the ADAC ask for him to step down (ADAC is run by the head of Renault)
Max choose this moment to launch the budget cap and KERS programs for the next year and say he's going to fight on with the FIA
Bernie asks for Max to step down
Max points out that he's only 69 and how one more term would take him to 71 at which point his ability to run a major sport would be "marginal" (Bernie at the time is 77)
Then Max writes a letter to the FIA talking about how he needs to stay on to control F1 against CVC (aka Bernie).
It's worth reading the grandprix.com analysis of the letter here:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20360.html
Read that and ask yourself if you don't think this entire situation was caused by that scandal.
Williams have a contract with the FIA for 2010. After that, they will go for the series which offers them the best chance of servival.
That may or may not be FOTA.
All good points, and you may be right.
I think we'd still be here, even without that scandal. But that scandal gave Max an easy excuse to run.
If FOTA happens in 2010, and Williams and FI are still in the FIA series by then, they will probably lose out significantly by the time they move to FOTA. Especially if their sponsors decide to move to FOTA...
Or rather the scandal pushed Max into explicitly spelling it out I suppose.
At the end of that letter he said something like, "other series have been proposing breakaways when they don't get enough money from the commercial rights holder that can't be allowed to happen here". And yet that's exactly what's happening now. And it's about the rules as much as the money.
The news story on Max was driven by someone who wanted to force Max out of the FIA. This current situation is most certinally a continuation of that.
As I sugested earlier, I believe that the 'budget cap' is only a part of the reason for the split.
Just watching our news. Greg Rust is *so* unconvincing as an analyst.
Isn't he just! I'm putting the clip on youtube as we speak though ;)
He's got his "worried face" on ;-)
Singapore?
Could be, but you'd be utterly kidding me if you tell me that Singapore is more glamorous than Monaco.
I mean that they'd try and paint it as that rather than it being that.
If Bernie jumps ship (as I suspect he will), Singapore will follow him anyway.
So it seems to all hinge on Bernie
The circuits have a contract with Bernie. Right?
But they need approval from the FIA?
FOTA can survive without Bernie (and some insist they should), but let's face it, if he jumps ship, it makes FOTA's lives a lot easier - not to mention it'll be a devastating loss for Max and the FIA series.
Why has he been so quiet lately? Surely he has a meaty quote or two?
Only for safety and all that. Why would the FIA decide not to grant them that certification on political grounds? As Steven said, that could get them in trouble with the EU...
When Bernie is quiet, that means he's up to something. That's all I'll say.
That's what I am thinking too. Whatever he does will be the tipping point in all of this I think...
If he was staying put with the FIA, he wouldn't have needed to do anything. But if he has a lot of work right now, I'm inclined to think that's because he's making a big move...
Looks like Force India will get that win by 2010...
lol
:D
Joe's best entry yet!
http://joesawa...-goose-for-breakfast/
It always does.
I didn't know, BTW, that there was an FIA World Council meeting next week...
As in WMSC (World Motor sport Council) meeting?
Sounds like it, yep. That's what Joe said...
As I said... The manufacturers want one thing. No more Max.
That could be the name for the new series:
"F Off"
Max has been holding a grudge against the teams since last year.
He has now put enough pressure on the teams that they have had to fight back.
But will anything make Max leave? He seems to be in total control of the FIA...
Will we see Todt for FIA president by the end of the week?
Would he be the man FOTA would support? I'd be surprised the other teams (i.e. other than Ferrari) would support him.
They follow the money. That's why last time he held up the spectre of Bernie snatching the control of the rules away from them and making them irrelevant.
If this goes ahead they will be irrelevant.
I thought that a year ago, but having Luca in charge of FOTA has worked.
Morning all from Kemble.
Have spoken to a couple of journos this morning - both think this is a bluff - albeit a big one.
Question and answer session going on my site at the moment...!
Have a good weekend all,
Rob
PS: No F1 action here today (I think they are all busy somewhere else?) but there is a serious amount of hardware flying in today for this weekends air show!
Morning Rob!
Really? Explain. Do you think they'll be able to force Max out?
And good morning, Rob!
That's ironic - 2 years ago, he seemed to be Max's anointed successor. Now, he might be the guy who would oust Max?
But would Max be able to twist it around? Will B did say that Max might look like a hero to some of them for not bowing for the manufacturers' demands...
Well it's a guess. We haven't heard from the toad for a while so maybe it will be the Renault chap.
But then again, as I said earlier, Todt isn't the type of guy who'd quietly settle down...
The Renault chap? Who do you mean?
Alex how long u been watching F1?
Never heard ANYONE talk with so much knowledge about it.
Jeff
And I'm being serious.
I have been watching since the early nineties. You just wait until Steven Roy gets here!
Many others around here are hugely knowledgeable too!
FOTA is now a top trending topic on Twitter.
:D
Hello to the whole Sidepodcast family,
It's my first comment ever, after happily listening and reading in the background for ages. Let me say a big thank you to you all for making my obsession with F1 ever severe by the day!
But what a day to make my first comment. The unthinkable really finally happened today. Our beloved sport is self-destructing in front of our eyes. I'm guessing Sidepodcast will follow the FOTA series next year? I have my doubt if FOTA really can build a new series in only a few months time, or if they can agree how to proceed when it comes to the details about governance and money. But I'm supporting FOTA all the way!
Can someone remind Bernie that a really simple solution to end all this nonsense is by placing a hit on Max?
Hello Freeman!
Thank you too for delurking and joining us! It's tons of fun here! :)
Most of us will probably follow FOTA, indeed. :)
We shall find out at the WMSC meeting next week, according to Joe.
Welcome! :D
You rang?
Good to see your head ping is still operational!
We were talking about knowledgeable F1 fans around here - like you! ;)
BTW, Joe said there's a WMSC meeting next week. If this crisis will be averted, Max has to be kicked out there. Will it happen?
I have had 3 hours sleep so my head ping is on full volume
They don't have the power. We need Alianora for this stuff but I think the only way to et rid of him is a vote of confidence by the FIA asa whole
If the WMSC showed signs of no confidence Max might walk.
From memory they are the people who trigger the vote of confidence. Then the whole FIA votes... Let me check.
Votes of confidence have to come from within the FIA.
If the WMSC pointed a bazuka at him he wouldn't walk. Not in his nature. His family don't have the part of the brain that detects subtle hints or the bit that says what I am foing is the dumbest thing possible
WMSC is only sport. I think the Senate is the vote of confidence people
lol @ #533 Freeman
Already done.
Christine and Mr C were not planning on going to Silverstone at 2 am. What has changed?
Freebies?
Hmmm... Whatever could it be...? ;)
Stuart's F1R quiz?
Don't think I'll bet my chickens on Max's spineless cronies in overthrowing their fief master.
What!? The have gone?
:D good for them!
#544 even better.
Got to love the Mosley family.
Never been logical thought.
The last time there was a confidence motion it was triggered by Max himself... Making it difficult to tell the exact normal procedure.
It only takes 1 person to vote in support of Max to keep him as president - strangely he became a vice president shortly afterwards...
Mohammed Ben Sulayem
Didn't he have something like 40 votes at his control?
:D
Ben still makes me laugh...
He is every powerful, next president?
He seems like a nice enough guy...
Hello all, delurking again, wanted to add a thought.
Everyone seems to be thinking that Bernie is either behind this breakaway, or intrinsically part of it, but I'm not sure it's the best idea for FOTA to bring him onboard. After all, it was Bernie, not the FIA, who made the decision to move the British GP away from Silverstone, away from Indianapolis and Montreal. If FOTA want to use those tracks, surely they will be better off without Bernie? Also, he's the one who controls their finances, and FOTA seam to have as many gripes with that side of the organisation of F1 than with the FIA.
If I'm honest though, I think this is another big political move, designed to oust Max (which really does need to happen soon).
Mentioning the money owed to them in their press release seems an odd way to have Bernie on board with them. This week Renault have also complained about the share of money they get (again). Personally, I think FOTA want rid of Bernie as much as they do Max.
On the otherhand...
Hi!
First time poster here but I've been a lurker for a long time.
Max (and Bernie) should understand that it's the teams and drivers that make the F1, not them. I'm sick and tired of them fooling around with that sport, changing rules everytime. (qualifying sessions anyone?)
Do I want to watch a F1 with teams and drivers nobody knows speeding on tracks nobody cares with a guy on top who prefers to spend his freetime with hookers? Hell no!
Talking about egocentrics.
Hi and welcome, Ele! Exactly the thoughts of most people here. Join our discussion on the Free Practice 1 thread.
Welcome Ele. thanks for contributing ;) I completely agree. I'd love to see rule changes made with consultation. it's been a farce for a while but the preseason "change" about how the championship would be decided (most wins) proved it to me.
Even if the WMSC can raise a vote of no confidance, it will require a meeting of the FIA at a later date to vote. As we saw last year, it takes a while to organise.
Max's power base lies away from F1 circles. Max survied a vote of no confidance last year when F1 wanted him gone quite easily - and back then the FIA itself looked like fragmenting.
Agreed - which is why a breakaway would probably happen.
Although Steven did say, how much money will Max make with a FOTA-less F1? With less money, there is less patronage for its members. When there is less patronage, they're more likely to revolt.
There is a race on this weekend??
Not everyone
I have not read through the comments, but when Lola withdrew on Tuesday, I suspected FOTA would announce a split and a new series. I expect Lola and N.Technology to be joining FOTA shortly (their statements indicated some tension with FIA). FIA and Max were too arrogant and this is what has brought the sport into this situation. FOTA (and I suspect Luca) have played their cards brilliantly and I think have served an ace. FIA and Bernnie must be seriously worried with the various rights and an inability to put on any real show. Williams and Force India will struggle to get out of their FIA commitments now (I think they rather brought this on their own heads), but the team I do feel most sorry for is USF1 as they have ended up in the dud series. Max was being too smart by not selecting the strongest candidates from the entries so as to secure places and thereby put pressure on remaining teams to sign up. Hopefully this will finish Max's presidency as he has made a royal stuff up!
I cannot see Max surviving this, he has to either really grovel to FOTA or simply enormous losses will result. I am glad it has happened as Max was not listening to the teams.
Well they (FOTA) want to control their business, I do not think they would necessarily shut door on Bernie, but I am sure they will look at other options.
Reading the comments, I do not think it is bluff. I sense a really seriousness to the agenda. They might agree to come back, but I am 100% sure it will only come about if Max's agrees to step down. This is personal and I think Luca is going for the jugular this time. Max had the opportunity to negotiate but was too much of a megalomaniac to concede anything significant. Bet he did not get much sleep last night.
No because there are circuit contracts and broadcasting contracts in place. There would be more lawsuits if there was no racing
From Joe:
An Interview from May 1991
The more things change...
There will be no B teams in the official championship. If the teams go ahead with the breakaway they will leave. Honda was committed to this season contractually. They left. Brawn techbically is a new entry
More meetings!!
And Will B's thoughts on the matter:
The sport is dead... Long live the sport!
Yes, technically but it fills that gap, with mostly Honda funding
Yes but my point is that people were saying teams can't just leave because contracts are in place. Honda just left with no penalty other than not receiveing TV money. That creates precedent for any other team that wants to leave.
I agree some what. F1 contracts are generally not worth the paper they are written on.
Unless you're Williams - they they're worth a lot more..
Jenson's for example.
He must be thanking his lucky stars he paid Williams to let him stay at Brackley for 2006 and beyond...
He still got out of it didn't he?
By paying a vast sum on cash.
Vast to you or me.....
By Honda paying him a vast sum of money. He made a big profit on the deal
Exactly. The last thing you should do is feel sorry for any of these guys.
Red Bull feel that FIA has broken the contract (they seem to be in a similar circumstance to Ferrari). I think the FIA would find it difficult to take three teams to court for breach. They will be too busy attempting to fill spaces on the grid. Possibly FIA should change it to Formula Cosworth!
That 's exactly what it will be
Why does AUTOSPORT always go to Jackie Stewart for comments and quotes? He's pretty well know for his bias isn't he?
Because he is honest, respected and talks sense
The FIA may have a problem with engines, there is on way cosworth could supply the whole grid
Right - anyone willing to guess what Max will announce later today? He already f'd off the FOTA teams, so this announcement would be different to that. And it's not the entry list yet - that's not until tomorrow.
I suspect they can get engines. Maybe not good ones. Chassis might me a bit harder
Why not? Once the design is done all they need to do is knock them out. They used to supply almost a whole grid when teams were using two or three engines every weekend
While I do believe this, Cosworth have a lot less people now than they used to.
That tomorrow, he will have a grid of 24 cars to announce
Wild guess - he is going to sue the teams he believes are contracted to try the old fashioned divide and conquer
Once they have done the design they can sub-contract a lot of the manufacture
Why didn't he announce that this morning? Oh well...
But seriously, divide and conquer - again? Sueing Ferrari and Red Bull is the most predictable move ever. Everyone knows that will happen.
I'm not even sure he will bother. He has said he doesn't need FOTA. I think he will try to say he has everything under control with all the new teams.
Even if he already lost 2 of them, probably to FOTA...
By the way, 5 live are broadcasting from Silverstone until 1300, they've currently got Jackie Stewert on (flying the Max Out flag) and are taking calls.
He needs to sound at least, that he has the power, and has things sorted.
I wants a Red Bull 1 - 2 this weekend!
Thanks for the tip, Rachel. :)
That sounds like the sort of thing Ferdinand Marcos did in his final days (reference to Philippine history...)
:D very appropriate!
Cool, thanks
You understand it! Very good - you know your history well. ;)
Was all close to Australia and reported widely
So who has all the shoes then?
hehehehe
I have lots of shoes.
34 pairs of converse all stars. :D
Shoes was Imelda's indulgence. I know someone else who has one... That's all I'll say.
Sounds like Flibster does to me!
Obviously he will try this as his way to get back at FOTA. It seems that RedBull and Ferrari are confident that FIA broke its contract about agreements in their participation. I doubt if FIA will pursue this though - their main problem will be dealing with filling the grid and convincing broadcasters that it is still F1. There are only so many fires you can put out at the same time.
I want to know what teams Max will announce as to contesting next year (fairly sure Pro-drive will withdraw like Lola and N.Technology). Who is up for putting some names on the list (I heard somewhere Superfund will probably not be participating).
Williams F1
Force India
Campos
USF1
Manor
Not quite up to Imelda's level though
:D
I expect Williams and FIF1 to eventually to move to FOTA.
If Max announces new teams you can definitely add Lotus-Litespeed and Brabham-Formtech so that he can claim that these are the original teams re-entering now that they have the opportunity to be competitive again now that F1 is not a spending competition.
Max will put Superfund on that list - he's short 2 teams now, he'll find whoever he can. And he'll still include Ferrari, RBR, and STR on that list.
Williams, Force India, Campos, USF1, Manor, Superfund, March, Brabham, Ferrari, RBR, STR, Prodrive?, Epsilon Euskadi?
Oh yeah - Lotus - drop Brabham or Superfund in favor of Lotus.
That actually means only 10 teams, so it will be Williams for victory? Should Nico stay at Williams - he is the obvious driver to become 2010 World Champion?
Bernie was asked if he wanted to run the breakaway championship. He mumbled something about 73 teams going in and out of F1, and how this is normal. Of course, he didn't say no.
That is all.
So Force India can kiss goodbye to McLaren support? Crazy.
We'll have a grid of cars all equipped with Cosworth engine.
Max wanted a one-engine series - his wish has been answered!
Nick Fry
They are gunning for Max!
Murray Walker:
They are gunning for Max
Really is that what Murray said - it was coincidence on my part!
Not in so many words, but in general, yes. Just listening to him on 5Live
From 5Live, simply put: if things are settled, we'll find out via a press release from Max by 4 PM.
If not, it's sue, sue, sue...
Max Mosley press release this afternoon.
UNLESS...
It's going legal - then there will be no statement
Simon Gillett is on now.
BOOOOOOO!
And he's aligning himself with FOM. Methinks he knows he has to stay as close to Bernie as possible...
Sounds like Bernie wants to negotiate his way out of things and Max wants to go legal. Normal knee jerk reaction
I think the announcement today from Max will be that he can't speak about an ongoing legal case.
That way he can be near his money
It will definitely go legal
5Live - It's cheaper to go to Monza than Silverstone?
But why are they still leaving the door open for compromise? What is going on behind the scenes?
Bernie and his money are not easily parted.
To quote Martin Brundle:
"Bernie has sold Formula 1 three times, and he never even owned it in the first place."
Yup.
Cheaper to spend a week in Belgium and go to a good race track rather than Silverstone
that's sad
Bernie's working his magic.
Watch at the end of this he'll be richer than ever.
They want the teams to capitulate before the statement
Dream world!
F2 was Max annoying Bernie remember.
And F2 is powered by Williams.
Unless Max leaves or gives in to FOTA's terms, it won't happen.
Yes
As Steven says... Max doesn't know how to do that.
Basically it costs money to go racing... The teams want a better deal.
But they understand that getting TV rights and getting money out of world governments is a valuable service and something that they are willing to pay for. Perhaps not as much as they are paying now, but certainly there is a value that they understand in what Bernie does.
But as Max has been getting more and more powerful, he has meddled more and more, and cost them lots of money with his sudden and random rule changes they have come to their senses and asked the question...
...What does Max have to do with it anyway? Really. What is the point.
So Max must go. But Bernie... Well Bernie always wins.
Everywhere I look in my playroom reminds me of the F1 FIAsco..
Buster Keaton's best film - The General
Charlie Chaplin's best film - The Great Dictator
PC Game - Fallout
PC Game - Empire: Total War
Vinyl Album - Madness
....
The fact that Bernie and Max treat F1 like their playroom. When in fact it is serious business.
Is it that serious though? Does the world stop turning if F1 stops racing?
There's a prominent F1 journo who once said "One day, F1 will disappear up it's own backside.."
Is that day today?
and Max is about to throw his toys out of the pram
It doesn't, but F1 is its own industry right now. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who will lose their jobs if F1 disappears.
I think the point is that F1 is a serious business worth billions but these clowns are behaving like it is a hobby
It's become far more important to these companies than it ever used to be.
Exactly.
Audi and Peugeot would like to disagree with you.
It's amazing what odd thoughts pop into your mind. We all know Allen Donnelly is not exactly popular with FOTA but the guy he replaced was. What are the chances of Tony Scott-Andrews being head steward / technical rules enforcer of the breakaway
Is he still working in some capacity with the FIA? If not, I like the chances of that idea.
I think he is out of the FIA
If the breakaway goes ahead whatever driver wins the official championship is going to be pilloried in the press and on the net. Wining that championship would be the worst thing a driver can do for his reputation.
Who wants to be F1's answer to Billy Boat
Heck, I was thinking worse... like not being noticed at all.
Do you have any idea how often a breakaway has been announced in the past?
I do, most notably the GPWC. But in that instance, they gave themselves years to do it - years meaning they gave themselves a buffer to pull back.
This time, it's different - their heads are on the line. If Max does leave them off the list for 2010, they have to pull it off. No safety net, no going back for them.
Even through I support FOTA's decision, nobody wins (especially the fans). If you will like to see how this will turn out look back on U.S. open-wheel history from 1996-2007 when Champ Car (then still CART) split and the IRL was formed.
Hey, Racinguy! Welcome!
But the difference between this and CART-IRL is that all the teams are moving. And some of the serious entries Max ignored have dropped their bid for the FIA championship as well - they may align themselves with FOTA...
I take one day off, I take one night to go on a date, I take one day without the internet and the world of F1 goes nuclear.
There are a few big differences though. First, there is no internation competition on the level of NASCAR that CART and the IRL faced. Second, What defines formula one if anything is the teams and drivers. You can throw Monaco in there but people will go with that they know. People know Ferrari, McLaren, and everyone else who are leaving. It basically turns the FIA F1 championship into the motor racing equivalent of the queen of England.
And with Lola, N-Technology and now Prodrive all begging off from F1 2010, Max isn't left with too many other options. He can't even publish a half-decent 2010 entry list now, so he decided to postpone it! And to sue FOTA, of course.
But it's too little, too late.
Hi All. anything political happen in the last 3 hours? announcements from max etc?
See my previous comment.
He wants to sue FOTA, not sure when that was announced
Around 40 minutes ago.
I've brought this idea up on my blog, but FOTA should buy out the IRL if only to get the Indy 500, Long Beach, Team Penske, and Andretti Green and junk the rest. A championship with both the Indy 500 AND Monaco would be an absolute killer.
It seems to be a good idea, but then we'd only see open-wheelers race in the US once a year total. And as Steven mentioned, ovals are a different nature to circuits, so cars need to be designed differently.
I hope she's an F1 fan ;)
Can't see Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton following to race on an Oval to be honest
Sounds like the weak response from someone who has just been blindsided.
great :(
Indeed. And he can't even publish a 2010 entry list now. Says it all, really.
don't worry. if this is the best max can come up with (i.e. suing and unable to create an entry list), it puts FOTA in a very strong position. even if max wins, they can just pay him and leave him in the dust.
Bye Karen & RG
You can't look away from the net
That would be interesting but I don't see it happening
They can have it like CART used to have where they had two chassis specs for the oval tracks and one for the road tracks for starters.
I mentioned Indy because it is a match made in heaven. FOTA is trying to find races to run in. The prestige of the 500 and Monaco on a calendar would blow Max and any other racing series out of the water. The George Family which owns both Indy and the IRL are looking to offload the IRL and find teams and drivers that will actually make the Indy 500 releveant again. For the last decade they've had to scurry around to fill the grid. This would solve all their problems.
I like the principal of it but would an American audience follow a championship with only a few races there and a chance of their teams and drivers not being competitive
I have next to zero interest in an oval race and I'd say that's pretty common in Europe for anyone less than a racing fanatic
Too many sponsors to please this side of the Atlantic
US street circuits - maybe
Sorry, I haven't full caught up on the news and comments, but does this announcements by FOTA mean that they've also offically declared war on Bernie?
Yeah I agree that this is more likely. I'm hoping for Boston ;)
If he's able in any way, Bernie will follow the big teams - they have larger dollar signs
I wouldn't think so. They're criticizing him, yes, but they're not really doing anything against him... And they could still use their help in a breakaway. This is more about Max.
It's ALL about Max
Hard to say. My guess is Bernie is behind the whole FOTA thing in the first place.
Well, FOTA do want a bigger slice of the pie commercially, and that's Bernie's patch, not Max's.
even CNN is covering the story here and here. My personal favourite part is when they link to a related article saying "Peace breaks out in F1 dispute"...aah no. not quite. the first linked article is recently updated. anyone else got a good report i can read to summarise the last few hours.
I am always shocked how many people follow F1 in the states dispite not having a driver, a team, or a race here. I think they would.
Look at the inroads MotoGP has made here in the states. I actually had a few friends who are really getting into that and there isn't an American manufacturer and team.
It all comes down to a sense that I've picked up here that people are looking for alternatives to NASCAR. People are tried of it and the IRL attempt to out-NASCAR NASCAR isn't cutting it. I think that is the reason why you have a lot of people like me who are going with MotoGP and F1 instead.
But you have big American names riding there, most notably Nicky Hayden and Colin Edwards. They've also had US champs in the past.
Kimi talks sense:
I don't think there is one report but basically sometime very late last night (Chritine was in bed and got up for this) FOTA put out a statement saying they were setting up their own championship because the FIA was not prepare to play ball.
Then we had nothing until the FIA put out a statement this morning saying that Max would make a statement later.
Then they said Max would make a statement at 4 o'clock unless they were going legal.
Then they put out a statement straight after FP2 saying they were going to sue the teams they believe were locked in and singled out Ferrari for special mention.
Somewhere between 2am and 9 Christine and Mr C got invites for Shell to spend today at Silverstone
The Ferrari PR officer actually let Kimi speak his mind, and he speaks some wise words.
But from his words, I sense he still wants to race next season?
and that they decided to postpone publishing the 2010 entry list.
I don't think I've ever heard of Kimi stringing that many words together in one go before
Sweeteners to make sure that the best community to do with F1 on the web is on the FOTA side?
:D
He has consistently said that he wants to race next year, that he has a contract with Ferrari. And when asked Ferrari have said Kimi will race with them next year.
Do you believe them, with all the Alonso rumours floating around?
I still believe that this motivation thing was a misunderstanding about his cars poor performance last year and this. He speaks his mind and was frustrated.
Lewis looked annoyed earlier in the season. And people asked him was he thinking of retiring. People have gone mad on this one.
Is that a surprise?
If Kimi wants to race next year, he'll be in a Ferrari
aah see i missed that but.
i'll prepare some links for the statements..
Not to me.
I think Alonso has an option on a seat at Ferrari. Sort of first dibs if there is space.
The Alonso rumours were there last year and the year before and after he signed for McLaren before it was made public.
Last year people were trying to say that Kimi would go to Renault to give Alonso a Ferrari seat.
The Ferrari drivers are not changing next year
How long before US F1 change their name back to US GPE?
But that rumor didn't make sense at all. I don't even remember thinking of that one very much.
This one is much more feasible.
:D
Not very long... ;)
Well they still are in F1... for now.
Rumours have to make sense?
Which one?
here is FOTO statement from last last night
and FIA's response this afternoon
This rumor of Alonso replacing Kimi at Ferrari by 2010.
You've seen a final list?
Not yet they aren't
No, they don't, obviously, but it needs to make sense for it to be believable.
FOTO GP
Is that a scoop?
nah just one of the many typos i make during an average day. especially a day like this ;)
I quite like the sound of it, though it does sound like a paparazzi race :)
The Santander to Ferrari thing fueled the fire for a bit but we may as well start saying Lewis is going as well. And Jenson.
Oh and Kubica
And Vettel
They're not Spanish, are they? ;)
I have been out taking photos this afternoon, but not of F1 - just old jags,porches, messerschmidts(?!) and other cars- there's a rally nearby for the weekend. they were just on display in the town square
It's quite a big line up that...
Kimi, Massa, Kubica, Lewis, Jenson, Alonso at Ferrari
No. But Santander is about to do a major rebrand in the UK. All of their banks and building societies are going to become called Santander.
Ooooh. I love the old Messyspit cars. ;)
That's true, but with a Spanish president (Emilio Botin), of course he'd have his biases... And the company is still based in Spain.
In David Croft's interview on the BBC, he has stated that FOTA has carefully looked at this including venues for the races next year. I wonder what tracks are on that list? It would be ironic if Silverstone was one of those.
so that's how you spell it. i always end up these car things with non car people, if you know what i mean. i was trying to explain how the Messy factory switched from planes to cars after the war. at least that's the story I've known and been too lazy to confirm...
N.Technology have had a bit of a go at Max:
I'm 99% sure Silverstone is on that list. And 95% sure Montreal is on it.
Ironic - many (including Joe) thought they'd be allied to the FIA as they participated in the WTCC. I guess not...
Don't we already have a Ferrari spec series in A1 GP?
Why would that happen? Kimi has a contract. Ferrari would need to pay him $40-50 million to go and then pay something similar to Alonso to drive.
I know Kimi makes statements about not driving much longer but that is bull. He and his management are about the smartest operators in the paddock. They set the bar on driver salaries post Schumacher. Kimi was making $40million when Alonso was on $6 million. There is no way they are going to walk without a big pay off. If Kimi walks who is he going to drive for?
I think the same, in a way I hope the breakaway happens
No more Tilke Dromes :D :D :D
F1 will collapse and Williams will jump aboard
do you mean the interview from last night/early this morning? that was a great piece and yeah i'm sure they've thought about it hard. silverstone would have to be a hopeful. the home of british racing?
OUCH!
It looks like the night of the long knives. Et tu Bernie?
It still makes me laugh that everyone in the movie Brazil drives those things.
I'm trying to remember who said it (I think it was Joe) that many people think that Kimi has to meet certain performance criteria, or else they can let him go in favor of someone else...
He said Ferrari will be his last ever F1 team. Many questioned his motivation. Put one and one together, and people say he'd retire.
James Allen says:
Read "one of the team principals" as "Ferrari's team principal".
:D
But weirdly when Lewis says it it's okay.
:) i wonder if he's had a chance to check out the LeMans track? ;)
Kimi's been through 3 teams and 9 seasons of racing.
Lewis has only been in 1 team and is only on his 3rd season.
Somehow, I'd believe Kimi more than Lewis...
So can we sum it up as:
Winners:
FOTA
Bernie
Losers:
CVC
Max
Bernie isn't a winner per se today, but he didn't lose out either.
FOTA are today's big winners. Some think that some teams may bail out of FOTA since Max is suing them. If they didn't do it then, why would they do it now that they're in a stronger position?
Does Bernie own the rights to the GP1 name?
Interesting...
*still own*
Why yes, yes he does... ;) And I've always said that a breakaway will end up having the GP1 name one way or the other.
Lots of people question his motivation because they can't see what is happening.
I am sure when he said Ferrari would be his last team that did not include being fired by them.
BBC talk to Max:
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8109971.stm
Geo-locked. Max looks old and haggard, doesn't he? Another sign of the times...
Exactly. He isn't the world's greatest communication yet everyone seems to "understand" he is demotivated.
It's like EJ the other day saying he was a disgrace (when EJ is the disgrace for saying that). And it was clearly a strategy call that went wrong. It was suddenly a debate about his motivation? Ferrari made the wrong decision.
Sleepless night?
I'd think so.
Even Max used "for sure"
:D
That can't be good - he rarely uses that phrase.
Must be an F1 sickness.
Max:
"They can't get the backing to race in anything other than the FIA Formula One. We have to leave the door open "
They wouldn't use the full track but maybe the Bugatti track would be an option.
It would make Dan's idea more appealing. Imagine Max's face if FOTA announce a claendar with Monaco, Le Mans and Indy
The GPMA register Grand Prix World Championship as their planned name
Back to his old tricks again
Why on earth would they not find any backing?
But more importantly, if I were Max and I were in a stronger position, I wouldn't leave the door open - I'd slam it in their collective faces. The only reason he's not doing it is because he can't - he's in a weaker position now.
F1 raced there once - was it in 1966? No one liked it - they never came back.
His generation introduced for sure to F1
More likely? I thought he wasn't planning to run anymore? Freudian slip. ;)
Same old tired lyin rhetoric
In other words...
Of course not - I enjoy throwing my authority around.
Did Max mention anything about Silverstone?
He actually said that they were driving him to stay and that they should have kept quiet if they wanted him to go
Why on earth would they not get any backing?
But if I were Max and I had the upper hand, would I leave the door open? Of course not, I'd slam it in their collective face. It means he's in a weaker position now.
Yes that he thought it was most likely F1 would be at Silverstone next year but that it wasn't up to him
Did he just say he thinks Silverstone will be here next year?
When he was asked, "do you think there is a room for two premier series in Europe", he said, "not two premier ones".
http://news.bb...rmula_one/8109184.stm
OK - now I'm just confused. I think he really has lost all grip on reality.
I think he meant Donnington isn't going to happen so they'll be back there. That story.
he's was going to stay whatever happened then.
Ecclestone brushes off questions
No info, just Bernie being Bernie
Except that Bernie will either cancel the event or take it somewhere abroad rather than return to Silverstone.
Whitmarsh: I think FOTA has just put out a statement...
He talks of FOTA as if he has nothing to do with it
But Bernie said they weren't going back to Silverstone if Donington couldn't finish by 2010 - they'd just skip a year.
Max is just... wow, I'm pretty surprised how messed up he is right now.
Or it could be a way of telling the journalist, "Why ask me? It's all in the statement. Read it."
It was Ted by the way.
Oh yes, TED NEWS!
Anyone want to go to the last ever F1 event?
Book now...
http://www.spo...YPllpsCFUoB4wodKl8tow
:D
The only venue to have it's 1st race as the season and series finale?
I love Bernie. :lol:
First race there might be F1's last.
But I doubt it.
That's my point, however, I agree
I doubt it too. Just thought it was funny.
They'd be fuming if that were the case. ;)
I like Joe's title for this short update:
Meanwhile, those noisy racing cars
I thought Alonso's comment from yesterday was right on the money:
and
I thought Alonso's comment from yesterday was right on the money:
Count on Alonso to deliver the brutal truth. He's really gotten the hang of this political thing the last few years.
In. A. Nutshell
Joe's been on a roll - another entry:
The wood and the trees
The next aside with Joe, whenever it happens, is going to be facinating.
Fascinating is a massive understatement.
When we spoke to him in the paddock, he said everyone was so taken up by this there was no other news, and its hard to talk about this because there are just so many question marks.
Might be a short show!
Hey Christine, did you enjoy your visit today?
It all went quiet here all of sudden... is anything going on?
Talk about other stuff! :D We suggested some possible topics to Mr C for you to bring up with him.
Oh yes. Much more to come.
Best day ever, I'm sure. ;)
Speak of the devil, welcome back!
Blimey, you went to Silverstone after all?? (I'm still catching up)
Yup, just for today. Again, more soon.
http://www.aut.../photo.php/id/1311133
First guy: You wait, few years time it's be IndyCar rules, IndyCar rules!
Second guy: Yeah, but the thing is right, under those rules you CAN have 4 cars.
First guy: Really? Hot damn, one for every place on the grid!
what's the e-mail address for our drop.io?
sidepodcast@drop.io
sidepodcast@drop.io
i was just asking about you. no pressure Scott, but I hope you had fun!
But the difference between this and CART-IRL is that all the teams are moving. And some of the serious entries Max ignored have dropped their bid for the FIA championship as well – they may align themselves with FOTA…
My basis on the comparison was that when the CART/IRL split happened, the two series were competing for venues, track attendence, advertising revenue, and sponsorship support. Even though the biggest teams are leaving it is hard to get the support for a new series especially in the current world economy.
Eh? I haven't gone yet!
excited much?
Quite! My Puma gear arrived today. Photos should be going onto drop.io right now :D
THEY FINALLY MEET! :D
http://drop.io...christine-and-rob-jpg
loving the photos scott. you should head over to the daily feed though so we can bask in your presents over there ;)
Ah yeah, I'm in the breakaway thread. D'oh!
I really like SpeedTV on-line only pre-race Q&A sessions. In this they talk about the breakaway. I think it is pretty darn good.
LINK: http://www.spe...amp;bctid=26866556001
thanks for the link. that'll make a nice addition to watch/listen on a race weekend.
if anyone missed the press conference today, link. nothing really new there but worth a read.
actually this bit is good when asking all the teams about the current situation. most responses are long. and then you get this
Adam Parr: Williams is a Formula One team.
Q: Is that all you are saying.
AP: That’s all there is to say.
That's a nice summing up of the situation
This is identical to how CART was formed in the first place - but with considerably higher investments at stake.
I hadn't thought of that Pat but you are spot on. Why didn't I see it. This is not CART/IRL This is USAC to CART and that was a great success.
It was only a success for 15 years. Then the IRL split happened, and then the CART teams started bickering over control.
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