Sidepodpanel - Two Tribes
Published
- Length: 55:15
- Size: 49.9 MB
- File: panel3.mp3
- Transcript: Coming soon
- Torrent: panel3.torrent
Another guest host takes the lead in this edition of Sidepodpanel, as Andy Taylor chairs the topical show, covering all manner of F1 related items. This week we discuss the championship results, Bernie's medal table, and there are some musical references as well.
Joining us on tonight's panel:
We welcomed two brilliant new panellers on this show, with Ollie and Lou both taking up the Sidepodpanel challenge for the first time. If anyone else is interested in having a go (and more importantly a laugh) on a Sunday night, then sign up via the Wiki.
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184 Responses
go ollie!
What have I done?
Go Lou!
suggested VBH for tv role :)
lol... not sure what i did... but :)
Terrific stuff guys :)
as promised, here's the unedited audio from sunday's show:
http://drop.io.../asset/parade3-infull
useful to fill in the blanks where the video went dark.
yay! thank you!
I'm just listening to the edited version and it sounds great apart from the bits where I'm "bubbly". 55 minutes of unashamed joy :)
It's gonna be a long night for me.
55 minutes of this, 59 minutes of another, 53 minutes of another, 28 minutes of my second fave one, and 3.24 mins of another thing.
Looks like an all nighter for me.
can we add you to the wiki list of future hosts again please?
am wondering if we're gonna get emails about the length of this show, given that it's quality discussion rather than the two of us rabbiting on?
might just get away with it :)
huh?
podcasts I'm listening to tonight.
By the way, are we agreed for me to be host of the christmas show/closest one to christmas you can be bothered to do it.
ahh, i see. cool.
we can't plan that far ahead :) but i don't see why not?
unless the xmas show is the all female show, of course.
There's a lot of stuff you don't know about me.
That doens't really work since I was on sidepodpanel 2 though :D and everyone heard me young geordie accent.
I've got a great idea for the "killer question" this week ;)
in that case (unless i'm needed to make up numbers) i'll and this week's from the comments ;)
In the buffer zone.
:D
That was poor
i didn't realise just how far behind the video was. once we put the phone done it was 2/3 mins behind.
btw: is it me, or was there no maurice hamilton podcast post brazil?
did i miss the download or something?
also, second dumb podcast question...
autosport homepage shows a new podcast for download, but it's not in the feed. itunes claims the podcast is no longer available in the uk.
so:
a) what's going on there?
b) if there's no feed, isn't it just an mp3 download?
ah-ha, found a post in the autosport forum on the subject. have questioned ginga's logic though:
http://forums....d=3398659#post3398659
appear to be blaming apple for their own podcasting woes.
what we're we saying recently about a little knowledge being dangerous?
Ah you see, it's nothing that's been mentioned so far :D
I was thinking of also implementing a joke into the introduction of each topic. I was thinking of something with Force India and [redacted], but that's enough of that. :P
it's fair to say you won't be hosting for long then.
I've added myself to the future hosts list :)
and i see dan b's added himself to next weeks show too. wonderful stuff :)
ah ok, bit too strong for your liking. I'll have to think of something else. :)
ta.
yeah, apologies for that.
here's a first for ya:
http://www.gua...mula-one-motor-sports
"Formula one teams' finance directors went to the sport's administrative headquarters in London last Friday to conduct an in-depth analysis of its accounts."
"The visits were planned in meetings between the chief executive of the sport's commercial-rights holders, Bernie Ecclestone, and team principals at the Brazilian grand prix 10 days ago."
Great Sidepodpanel! Well done.
I do have to correct the individual who made the comment about Kyle Busch being the rightful leader of the NASCAR Sprint Cup series. Not true. While Kyle Busch did have a great run with eight wins in the first 26 races of the season, he has come completely unglued in the 10 race Chase for the Sprint Cup. This isn't the first time he's fallen apart in the Chase, so I hesitate to blame it all on luck. Regardless, Jimmie Johnson, the current championship leader and two-time Champion, would be leading the championship under the old point system or the current Chase format. Jayski.com calculates the points both ways http://www.jay.../35phx2008points.htm.
I actually like the playoff format of the Chase. I'm not saying that it is perfect, but it adds an extra element of excitement to the championship.
Anyone who can get Skype working whilst standing in a well deserves a shoutout, Ollie. :)
Ah, go on, give us a hint.
The dreaded 'M' word? ;)
don't say it :)
on that subject... any luck?
good info, cheers todd.
don't tell bernie you like it though, you know what he's like.
I am listening to the editted version of the show and it is really good. It is very well paced and and the occasional interuption works better than I thought it would. I thought if interuptions happened we would end up with people talking over each otherbut that didn't happen.
The editing as ever is superb. It sounds like it is live.
I didn't realise it until I listened to it that 'me' was trying to sabotage my efforts in the last round with his comment that I was still scoring points even though the round must be over.. Andy didn't say you were only allowed one song so I had a few lined up and decided to just keep throwing them out until I was stopped either by Andy or Christine. Instead the guy who was supposed to be heckling from the comments stopped me in the end. Just as well we won or there couls have been a late protest.
ooooops!
ahem, i might have to work on that whole 'supporting role' business. problem is neither team pulled out a significant lead.
anyone know what happens if it's a draw?
I assume the adjudicator for the event declares a winner in that case, since the prize is bragging rights.
ooh, that's a lot of pressure, could lead to calls of favouritism.
:)
We either have a draw or we have another round and see if someone can win. Could go on all night though. My guess is the first person to mention Franck wins.
I had a flash while listening to the Brazilian show. A panel on a side pod is a Barge Board. May be a good name for the sidepod panel.
Just a thought.
Jim
Barge Board... I like it! People BARGing in and all. :) Great idea, Jim! :)
Todd, that individual was me. While I accept your argument, I am not the only person who thinks that it's unfair to have a system where a driver can lead until a certain point, then have two bad races and drop out.
I do believe that had we run the classic system Kyle Busch would not have come unglued quite so spectacularly - as once you make a mistake in the chase it is almost impossible to make up. Therefore you try harder and more mistakes are made.
Whilst Jayski calculates the points in the classic system with JJ as the leader, this is based on the assumption that the final 10 races were run normally - when the chase is a whole new championship and teams use different strategies etc.
JJ has only started to get results in the chase period and quite frankly it has made the chase quite dull - the opposite effect of the intended playoff finish.
I am quite a fan of NASCAR but I feel that the chase is artificial and doesn't work - the championships are now decided two races in, when I am sure the intent was to go to the last race for a shootout. I also don't like that the races before the chase are only used to decide who could make a run for the championship - the Daytona 500, both the road races, and a lot of 'blue riband' events don't count - surely a true champion is one who does well in all of these events too (which I believe Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards did a lot better than Jimmie Johnson...)
There is no Brazil podcast. Only a 20-sec blank audio file with a comment which goes something like "Unfortunately the fates were against us, but we should be back for a 2008 season review".
I was a bit disappointed as I enjoy the banter between those two!
Morning all,
Hilarious reading, especially comment number 5.
http://www.gua...y-dacre-press-privacy
What perfect reading for a morning break :)
I'm looking forward to catching up on sidepodpanel tonight. Hope the new panelists had as much fun as I did in #2 :)
the fia have email??
> press@fiacommunications.com
damn. anyone willing to bet that ron's gonna have ian phillips muzzled from next year?
i bet that macca deal comes with a whole heap of nda's :(
each team chose one spokes person and they have to speak for a given time on a subject, extra points for the number of mentions of Franck, or le seb?
Hilarious reading, especially comment number 5. {Stuart C - 5 comments ago}
I get the distinct impression that the Dacres and Mosleys of this world may have missed something. The main problem with the News of the World article was that it had the wrong angle, partly because the story was dependent on one unreliable witness.
Several people (including Mosley) comment that there is no reason why legal consensual sexual acts between private citizens should be in the papers. While the principle makes sense to me, I do not see how it can be applied in this case. While most forms of consensual prostitution is legal (and the law these days is more concerned about people who control sex workers, which isn't an issue in this case), operating a brothel and assault are not. According to UK law, a brothel is any building where more than two sex workers gain a living. They don't even need to be working simultaneously for it to be in breach of the law. Five is more than two. Unless none of the witnesses could count or the other four workers were tricks of the light (which seems unlikely since everyone involved in the incident except Woman E testified in court afterwards).
Sadomasochism, if I have understood it correctly, involves people deliberately hitting each other with intent to cause pain. Technically this is assault, even if everyone agreed to it. While I have yet to hear of any UK court actually declare S&M illegal on that basis, a newspaper could rightfully claim that they were simply reporting on an act that is illegal by implication.
Unfortunately, the News of the World missed these two fairly obvious lines of enquiry and decided to use a different one based upon the perceptions of one person. The BBC's old "two sources" rule would have saved the NotW's editor a lot of trouble!
the fia have email?? {me - 4 comments ago}
They certainly do. I suspect from the name of the email provided that it is primarily for press people (and that any response will be from Richard Woods or a deputy of his), but if the FIA are willing to tell the rest of us...
anyone willing to bet that ron’s gonna have ian phillips muzzled from next year?
i bet that macca deal comes with a whole heap of nda’s {me - 4 comments ago}
I hope the Force India brigade don't get muzzled (Ian Phillips is not the only one who talks to the outside world about the team's state) because their connectivity to the media helps the rest of us connect with them and, by extension, F1 as a whole. The house Jordan originally built never was much good at keeping its opinions quiet (how else would Mike Gascoyne have managed two stints there?) and that sort of non-disclosure agreement would stifle those working there. Thus leading them to be less effective.
Unfortunately, despite McLaren saying they want to learn from Force India, I think there's a good chance they will stick a lot of non-disclosure agreements on straight away, little understanding that this is part of the reason a lot of people struggle to warm to McLaren and why there is more disconnect between F1 and the fans than in previous years.
Loving your signature on the Autosport forum Me:
:-)
:D
credit to autosport, they got back to me:
http://forums....d=3399077#post3399077
we can look for forward to more encrypted traffic and starched overalls next year then :(
CK may not be utterly out of the frame yet – as far as he’s concerned he still has a valid contract. There’s more to come from this one (good thing in an otherwise slow news fortnight)!
for half a second i thought you meant klien :)
didn't gp.com suggest that their was a conflict of interest between kolles / audi and the new "technical" partners?
Could be...
Haha. Genius.
Would be a great partnership with Sa..Bourdais :)
Any chance of this being loaded on the sidepodcast site (big downloads usually break so I need to be able to resume the download (use Opera for this). Drop.io does not seem to allow resume - have noted this previously. Thanks
Personally I still think Toro Rosso should have Klien and Liuzzi - they work well as team mates - both are quick and have lots of F1 experience. LeSeb has neither their experience (to help develop the F1 car with new regs) and I suspect is not as fast outright and, worst for me, he has a whinny character.
RANT ALERT
Despite all the bull Tony Purnell now says next year's regs may not improve the racing. Oh what a surprise. Most of us figured that out the day they were announced so why does it take an expert months to comprehend the bleedin' obvious. Oh and the people who wrote the regs underestimated how much the teams would claw back so instead of having 50% of this year's downforce they could have 80%. For 30+ years the FIA has been trying to cut downforce and every time they underestimate how much the teams will claw back. You would think after repeating the same failure for 30 years they would build something into their calculations.
Tony Purnell was supposed to be the technical genius who would do things properly but all we have is yet another failed re-hash. I could write a better set of technical regs in ten minutes than he and the overtaking working group have spent months developing. Oh and we may not get much overtaking. Sorry but i thought that was the point of the whole exercise. Why doesn't he just stand up and say 'I am a failure'
Clearly he has learned something during the exercise as the following quote proves. “Unfortunately there is a degree of evidence that suggests aerodynamics is probably the worst thing you can have when it comes to close racing.” NO sh1t! Gilles Villeneuve figured that out and he has been dead 26 years. He said that the big problem with 'modern' F1 cars is that if you follow another car you lose downforce and have to drop back. You can't follow it through a corner so you can't get a tow down the straight. etc etc
Now more than quarter of a century late Purnell has figured out that there is a "suggestion" that the reason we have had so little overtaking just possibly might be aerodynamics. If this guy got hit in the face with a shovel he would think that there was a suggestion that gardening hurt your nose.
And to top it all the moron thinks that KERS is a breath of fresh air.
http://www.itv...Article.aspx?id=44594
END OF RANT FOR NOW - THE RANT WILL RETURN IF PURNELL SAYS KERS IS STUPID
I have been moderated for abusing Tony Purnell. He deserved it. If I wasn't so angry I would have said a lot more and a lot worse.
I have unmoderated you.
News just in! Williams have revealed what their new front wing will look like for next year!
http://www.aut...s/report.php/id/72093
I’m not sure I like it... it doesn't look as bad as i thought it might... it's slightly platypus-esque though but that might just be the angle of the photo. I still hate the rear wing though, it just looks so wrong.
they should do, will have a word with 'em about that.
shall try and get it onto here before the weekend, but the upload tied up our connection for over an hour yesterday and i just can't face going through that again this evening :(
Platypus-esque must go in the SPC dictionary.
Thanks Christine
I was thinking it was more Warthog-like than Platypus-esque...
What is it with us and small mammals? :D
Damn, you beat me to it :D
Well, it's radical, I'll give them that. But I still like it :P
Aside from the rear wing, am I the only one who thinks this looks sleak and neat and best looking car in years?
I can't see anything but the rear wing.
btw: the programme lou was talking about on the show:
http://uk.euro...rsport/factory/video/
just catching up now, damn that narrators boring.
actually, take that back. he's not boring, he's useless.
I like this year's cars. I'm a fan of all the little areo bits (except the horns/dumbo flugel) ;) I suppose the Williams doesn't look too bad, but i really do hate the rear wing. The more i look at it the more i keep thinking it has just been stuck on the car without thought. It really is ugly. I'll get used to it, but i prefer the 07/08 cars more.
I think i posted a link to that site last week some time :) I think i prefer this week's programe to some of the others. I found the bits about the carbon fibre really interesting :D
I think we will quickly get used to the "new look" - I kinda agree with Steven Roy that the reduced downforce won't be as significant as everyone thought - aerodynamics will still play a huge role and overtaking in dirty air will still problematic. I am of course very keen on the KERS - it is likely to be one way that Honda might gain some competitiveness. There are two interesting bits of information in this area,
a) Toyota is the company with the most amount of experiences with hybrid technology and still are the only company to have won a race using it (see http://www.gre...brid-car-race-win.htm ) but they have elected not to run KERS in the beginning of 2009 F1 - I think this is a very clever move as they can see what solutions the other teams have come up with and determine what the advantages are.
b) I expect Macca to be in the best position to make KERS work at least in 2010 - the following link
http://www.pla...,3213_4489934,00.html is a very significant indicator of the route they are going in the long term. I think we already know that BMW Sauber and Red Bull have gone electrical route using lithium batteries (which are heavier and have more inherent fire-associated risks) than the use of superconductors as energy storage. Toyota will for sure be working on the same route of using superconductors.
I am very excited about the KERS as it could be a new frontier in F1 technology. The best bit is that Ferrari are so under-prepared - if KERS adds a real advantage then they will really be in a bad position to defend their constructor's championship. Most people believe it is an electrical system using lithium batteries but these are still guesses.
I have spoken to some of the engineers at our University's Fuel Cell research labs - they are of the opinion electrical with super-conductors (Macca and Toyota) or the the flywheel (Williams and Renault) are the best routes. The other system using lithium batteries (Red Bull and BMW Sauber) will push add too much mass +/- 60 kg as opposed to +/-30 kg. Honda is thought also to be using the flywheel approach - but the guys I spoke to also said it was not so much how much money you spend but how clever you can be in the packaging and linking with other components (mechanical flywheel with a CVT and an electrical approach with Macca's ECU). I would hate this to become another standard unit in the F1 rule book.
Given Ferrari's issues with KERS and they pushed not to introduce it next year Force India had no choice but to dump the Ferrari engine contract or run the year with no option of a KERS.
I think there will be a shake up in the field and personally I believe the two teams that will make it work best will be Macca and Renault followed by Honda and Williams - when/if Toyota launches theirs it will be awesome. I think all the other teams will be struggling (including BMW Sauber!), but STR will come off worst (Ferrari engine and a Red Bull KERS designed to work with Renault power).
Agreed - the rear wing is not so bad either!
am just glad the man at the start has... stopped... talk... ing
Getting used to something is not the same as liking it though.
Thanks - I have check again with drop.io and yes it failed to fully download and re-connect
yes he is rather annoying. He's another person i wouldn't want to commentate on f1 next year ;)
You know if you look at the rear wing area, the 08 cars have the support in the middle, whereas the 09 cars don't - it's just a big hole. That will definately help the air flow cleaner and smoother.
Trust me you will forget the big wings of 2008 era (it is a perception issue, it is like other fashions) - that Williams is actually rather smart looking.
not from behind it's not. bleurgh.
Well if it adds improved over-taking opportunities can you forgive its looks?
I, for one, will be pleased to see all the aero add-on bits gone like the winglets, ears, antlers, and horns! Roll on cleaner looking cars!
not sure i've ever witnessed f1 swap a beautiful but difficult car for a fugly but more practical machine.
i suspect the move slicks will make a considerable difference, and we won't necessarily be able to say "ooh, doesn't that new rear wing make a difference, i'm so pleased they ditched the old one".
keep in mind, i like the current car and i liked the season we just experienced and i dislike the amount of overtaking that you see in the likes of nascar (a pass / re-pass almost every corner).
so to answer your question. umm, no i can't :)
Thing is, it can never make THAT much difference, given the nature of F1.
And if we have to stare at those cars circulating for two hours a fortnight, I'd prefer it if they looked good.
A horrible rear wing isn't going to make me say I quit as the prospect of standard engines did, but if it's fashion, like you say, then I'd prefer to be sooooooo 2008.
Your eyes will adjust to the sight of the new rear wing. I am biased as I thought the cars got seriously ugly this year they began to look like strange horned beasts that fossil record has thrown up in excavations
see
http://piclib....1000/500/1504_med.jpg
But I can remember as a small kid thinking that the Lotus 72 (John Player Special) was beautiful ... just look at it now ....
http://blog.un...2-fittipaldi-1972.jpg
Of course I also had a model of the Ford GT 40 - unlike the Lotus, that still is beautiful to my eyes but it is rare that a racing car keeps its looks.
Your not wrong. Is he making up the script as he goes or something?
To be honest, at least it's overtaking! Despite the regulation changes this season, I can't say it's been passes left right and centre has it. Also, when was the last time an F1 race had a photo finish or a "Big One"? Yeah, NASCAR isn't particularly exciting sometimes, but you don't get the sight of 5 cars fighting to get to the chequered flag first in F1 do you?
i think it's a case of say what you see.
"800 staff... and... some... parts".
my guess is he's used to introducing football.
by why is that better than no overtaking?
it's just as meaningless.
but in nascar the first 200 and something laps are a pointless waste of time. the only thing that matters is the last lap.
so, yes the last lap in edmonton is really exciting, but can you stay awake until the end?
... but the whole of Valencia GP was a pointless waste of time in an Fugly landscape of concrete!
couldn't agree more.
which is why i approve of the switch to slicks :)
Nascar and F1 are totally different and overtaking is different in each. Because Nascar runs mainly on ovals overtakes mean less. If you look back to the days when there was a lot of overtaking in F1 people raved about the spectacle. Imagine two drivers fighting for a position every lap. That is more interesting than two drivers running 3 seconds apart or two drivers on different strategies.
More overtaking in F1 is better and the only reason the alternative view has gained any credence is that over the years Max and Bernie have been unable to write a decent set of tech regs so they put out all the chess match bull and te idea that overtaking is for rednecks and F1 fans should be too sophisticated to enjoy overtaking.
That's what caution periods are for ;)
Totally agree - that is why I like the return of slicks. I am not sure if the KERS will actually give the required power boost to be able to overtake on a long enough straight but if so even that is better than two cars circulating without changing positions.
and containers. yeuch...
Over Forty but the GT40 is still beautiful (in my eyes at least)
http://www.rs-ford.co.uk/2004/gt40.jpg
sorry, but that's balls.
i watched nascar last year and pretty much every pass was forgettable because they happened so frequently, most of the time the camera missed em.
who's in the lead? dunno, doesn't matter they won't be at the next turn anyhow.
It really was a hideous race track and a boooooooooooooring race - wonder if making it night race would improve iT!
But next year it will be a boooooooooring race with fugly cars.
and containers :)
LMAO! That's a brilliant response from Me :D
I agree, tis a very beautiful car :)
Might be, might not be - I am hoping for a bit more opportunity to overtake - and not to see Massa lead from start to finish unchallenged!
For me the boring races were Bahrain, Barcelona and Valencia, not counting the McLaren related issues in the first two. Apart from them, and France which I never really watched, every race had something exciting about it.
Personally, I think F1 fans prefer sophisticated overtaking, which is a very different thing. How freaking exciting to watch Hamilton slide past Fisichella taking all his effort and skill.
If overtaking was ten a-penny, that last lap in Brazil would have been run of the mill and I wouldn't still be smiling about it now.
I would refuse to watch Valencia at night, would just be a waste of electricity. If you want more overtaking, scrap tracks that make overtaking near nigh impossible and replace them with tracks that make overtaking easier. Together with slicks and kers overtaking would be a little more frequent but not so much that it was just as boring as no overtaking.
quote of the year :)
So what you're saying is you prefer overtaking be difficult rather than easier? I mean, Lewis didn't exactly catch and pass Fisi in one lap did he?
the MK IV version of the GT40 had a top speed in excess of 220 mph! That is as fast as a modern F1 (I think!)
What I'm saying is, I like what I saw. If he could catch him and pass him in one lap, what would be the point? Just hand him the title on the first race?
I agree. I've really loved this season's racing, and personally don't have any problem with it. The season's finale was spectacular, but it's not exactly like the season has been full of awful races is it? We have only have 2 or 3 dull races and even those i would watch again. If i had enough space on my sky + box i would save them all and watch them at least once more :D So when you talk about how great it is in Nascar that they have so much overtaking, that's great. But i watch F1 for a reason, sure most people want overtaking and more exciting racing but i think this season has proved that it's possible to have that without silly rules and regs, ugly rear wings, and electrocuting your staff. A boring race here and a boring race there never did any harm, in fact it makes me appreciate the highly exciting races even more.
I would like to se MORE overtaking - now I am going to offend folks - but MotoGP is still more exciting than F1 because of the overtaking (I am biased being an ex club Aprilia rider)
Watch this vide of Stoner vs Rossi at Laguna Seca 2008 - that is overtaking!
http://uk.yout...w&feature=related
but this could be fun too!
That's because they race on ovals not because they are overtaking. Overtaking on a road circuit is totally different. People who go to race tracks for events other than F1 always end up loving Formula Ford and the likes because the cars are simple and allow lots of overtaking.
sorry to quote the whole of lou's comment, but i just want to say...
I AGREE
so much so, that i used capitals :)
I totally agree. I watch Moto GP because the racing is far better than F1
dude! sorry, to call you dude, but y'know...
i watched nascar race on road circuits too. i watched montoya win on one of them and still it wasn't any better.
with all due respect, under no circumstances will i ever end up liking formula bloomin' ford.
In fairness F1 does not have drivers of the statue of riders like Rossi - the guy is just unbelievable - I think he might well be the greatest ever rider (hard for me to say cos Agostini was so good!)
I have taken a Ducati on Laguna Seca (invitation club day) -a very very scary race circuit but is an adrenaline pump and absolutely glorious! Too dangerous for F1 though!
woot! am glad i'm not alone in this opinion :)
We can't expect the same amount of rain every year to liven up the racing, though. The season was great, and there was plenty of overtaking for me, but many of the best races this year were down to the weather.
Granted it is more than just overtaking - A1GP has more overtaking but it does not have the same appeal as F1. Point taken this year there was some good racing and great laughs (the scarlet clowns at Singapore) - better season than last year. Having said that it was not quite the clash of the Titans the way MotoGP was this year!
what about australia? loved it, but it didn't rain did it?
singapore was also dry and i loved that one.
Not sure I could handle the excitement. You should see what I'm like when I watch cycling. ;)
you're right we can't, but with global warming etc we could be in for alot more wet gps ;)
Absolutely. I think Australia may be my favourite race of the year, but we wouldn't have had nearly as much excitement throughout the season without the weather interruptions.
My view on overtaking is - I would rather watch two drivers go side by side and pass and repass each other about 5-6 times on just one lap rather than see one driver pass another and then just follow him. To me, this is what these new rules are designed to do, and that im my opinion is what classed as exciting racing. Two cars side by side for a whole lap and constantly switching places is great to watch. Just watching them follow one another in my view isn't.
He can find the shift key after all! ;)
You cannot put this year's unusually wet conditions to global warming - in fact the opposite could become drier or wetter - especially in Europe (which paradoxically could get warmer or cooler depending on how ocean currents change the patterns).
The difference is you needed rain to make F1 exciting this year, in MotoGP they can do it in glorious californian, italian or australian sun!
it might've been the caps-lock key :(
twas just a joke...
i know nothing about bikes, but how come every headline that catches my eye on autosport.com is bitching and moaning from riders about how the racing isn't as close as it used to be? about how tyre rules are ruining racing and about how electronics take all the skills from the drivers?
yet you people seem to think it's the best thing since sliced bread? methinks some people will never be happy. to quote some lyricist or other:
"you don't know what you got till it's gone"
maybe, the new wing will suck and maybe we'll look back on this recent era as the golden age of formula 1. when races were decided on the last lap of the last race of year and cars didn't look like something a 4-year-old would dream up.
Monza 1971
I know but every race next year could be dry - actually one of the killers of F1 being exciting goes by the name of Hermann Tilke
Ever heard of the phrase "Function over form"? What if these new aero rules turn out to be a success? Would you then be willing to admit you were wrong?
And if you don't like how they look now, I dread to think what you'll say to iMotor's article on what race cars could look like 25 years from now. At the end of the day, who cares what they look like? As long as it works, that's the main thing.
That is because they are just starting on the journey F1 has been on since the late 60s with aerodynamics and instead of sitting back and letting it destroy the appeal of their sport they are fighting it. It clearly is not as good as it was but it will be a long time before it is as boring as F1 can be - Valencia for example.
It's like when the new version of Spa opened everyone compared it to the original and said how pathetic it was and how it was a pale imitation of the original. The question that was asked time after time is how can it be Spa without the Masta Kink? Now that pale imitation is the best circuit on the calendar. It is all about perception.
That exceeds even my advanced years to recall!
i'm only wrong if the cars turn out to be extremely attractive surely?
but yeah, i'm wrong at least a hundred times a day, so what would be the difference?
Alright, I'm gonna say it. I'd like to assure you beforehand that I'm perfectly sane.
From what I've seen so far, I really don't mind those rear wings. At first they looked like a joke, but they've grown on me pretty quickly since. Maybe it's because Williams have constructed the best-looking cars for the past two seasons, but different doesn't equal ugly for me. I'm not saying it's beautiful, or any better than the current rear wings, but I could certainly bare to watch them.
I may change my mind depending on how the final 2009 cars come out though...
Aww, your getting closer. :)
nurse!
:)
You just said did you not that maybe the wing will suck. If it doesn't suck, then you would be wrong, yes?
It is a very famous race becaus it was the closest F1 finish in history and it was just before the chicanes so it was the fastest F1 race speed for the next 20 odd years.
oh god. no. my arguments are:
- it is really necessary for the revised specs to make the chassis so damn ugly?
- why is everyone obsessed with how good things used to be, when we've had at least 4, maybe 5 fantastic seasons on the trot?
- if things are currently as bad as people are making out and bikes are sooo much better, why the hell is anyone watching?
Tbh i don't really care if all the races are dry. I can already be sure that even if every single race next year is boring, there is no overtaking and the championship is decided ages before the season finale at Abu Dabi even though i may not be entirely happy with certain races or an early end to the championship battle, i will be more than happy to watch each race again. Even in years to come if i don't like the tracks, and the races become dull, I will still love f1, something has drawn me to it since i was tiny (even though i didn't really understand it, i still watched it), and i have a feeling that isn't going to change. If the racing is boring to watch then so be it, i'll watch it.
If I had a sky+ box, me too. :)
No. Properly written technical regs would have exactly the opposite effect.
Because things use to be better. Things are getting better but they could still be a lot better.
We are sad addicts of F1. Moto GP is simply somthing to watch for an hour's entertainment on a sunday. F1 is a 24/7 thing that results in me naming songs with F1 connections and finding reasons to mention certain French racing drivers at 11pm on a Sunday night.
lol, i have most of the races on ours. We are currently coping with 15% memory, am hoping it will annoy dad so much he will invest in a dvd recorder :D
Then how can you compare the two? There must be a reason you consider yourself a "sad" addict of F1 and not MotoGP?
but these regs have been figured out by three of the smartest minds in the paddock. it's not like max just made 'em up. teams put money into this, and they didn't once question why their cars would end up looking... funky?
i can only take your word on it, but i REALLY like it now.
:D
The new tyre rules is a serious worry for next year. Have you watched the video link of the Laguna Seca - there was some awesome races this year. In my book MotoGP is better than F1 as a racing spectacle but F1 is way better than other car-racing even without the overtaking.
Next year I am hopeful we will have closer racing, with a less predictable idea of who the winner will be. I would like to see an end to a Massa Pole to Flag race win!
The reason I like drivers like Heidfeld and Alonso is they are supreme overtakers even though they do not have the best equipment. I am confident that Lewis will get there - he has the potential but often makes a mess of things. Heidfeld still made more overtaking and more double overtaking than any other driver this season (sure because he was usually way down the grid). I am expecting some change of fortunes e.g. both Kimi and Nick will regain the upper-hand over their team mates (I think Massa and Kubica have similar driving that might not be as successful next year), Fernando will be strong and if Red Bull gets it right DeSeb will be up there as well. Just hoping that Helmut Marko wish for Liuzzi at STR comes true next year that is one good driver! I do not understanding teams trying inexperienced GP2 drivers when you need experienced former F1 drivers (e.g. Chrisitan Klien) with all the development that has to go into next year's cars- can they not see what happened with PK (true Glock was a bit of a revelation!)
1) As I've said before, does it really matter what the chassis looks like? As people have been talking about, what it does and how it does it is what we need to be focusing on.
2) Fantastic is a bit much isn't it? While some of the racing each season might have been good, each season had a downer to it. 2004 saw Schumi take another title, 2005 had the Indy farce, 2006 had Schumi's Monaco parking, and 2007 had the whole spy scandal. This is just off the top of my head but shouldn't an F1 season be judged once everything on and off track is assessed? Don't judge me too much on that one, it was the only point I could think of without mentioning the looks of the cars.
3) Maybe because, as Lou pointed out, F1 has a certain aura to it for racing fans. No matter how boring or exciting it is, fans just can't ignore it. I would think it's the same with bike racing fans. Both F1 and MotoGP are the pinnacle of their sports and each has its own unique attraction. Some people, including myself can take a liking to both but then that's just different people's likes and dislikes.
i don't consider loving f1 to be 'sad'. i think it's awesome, and following the sport has led to some of the best outings and most exciting times i have ever had. I never used to mention my love of the sport much with friends, but i've since come to realise that it's become a part of the person i am, heck i even wear an f1 car pendant most days ;) not because i am obsessed (although i am) but because it looks lovely, and although it catches people's eyes, and people sometimes say it looks like a vacuum cleaner, i love it :D
not sure how many other ways i can say "yes" :)
i enjoyed em. the damper things wasn't much fun and neither was spy-gate, but it's been ages since i thought "if only they'd change all the rules in one big hit, wouldn't that be fun?"
*sigh* There's just no pleasing everyone, is there? Oh well...
that was my line to you!!
Ultimately both F1 and MotoGP do represent the elite of racing. The drivers and riders are truly great and this is visible - there is magic and aura in what they do - sadly an A1GP might be closer with more overtaking but the class of the drivers is just not as evident. Superbikes are not as good as MotoGP for much the same reason. Currently MotoGP for me is better because in some senses it is closer/tighter with more overtaking. I have to admit I actually gave up watching F1 during the Schumacher era but when Fernando came along all my interest got revived.
Oh what's the point - why do I bother trying to get involved in debates like this. I never win at any of this anyway. Everyone always trumps my arguments... :/
:)
my point is. i am happy now, right now, with the way f1 is (or rather was until that williams took to the track).
Oh yeah, go ahead. Feel good because you made me feel bad. Thanks...
Not if you look at it optimistically.
And you're problem there is? He is an extremely good driver, and yes he dominated the sport for years and made racing boring to watch for non schumi fans, but you can't have a grudge about how successful he was. Whether people like it or not he has been and still is a massive figure in the sport. He bought f1 to the attention of many people, and several people i know started following the sport just because they admired his talent. And no i'm not a schumi fan, but i think his talent should be appreciated and not considered an annoyance. I'm thinking people may have had a different view of it if he was British ;)
A whole season can't be judged on a single race. Yes Indy 2005 was a joke, but it was only one race of the season.
Again that was just one event at one race in an entire season.
2007
i admit that was annoying, but what does it really have to do with the racing? it didn't really effect anything did it? the cars were still allowed to race and everything was fine on track. There will always be a bit of politics in f1, whether it be small or big. It's too much of a competitive sport to not have any. in truth most things in life involve some sort of politics
see what I mean? Why bother, my points suck...
It's not about winning, Scott, it's about discussing your point of view. Just because there are disagreements doesn't mean you're wrong.
If you found those seasons frustrating, then you did, what 'me' says shouldn't change that. He's a stubborn mule anyway. I've been trying to beat him for years and haven't managed it yet.
aww, am not having a go at you :) just putting across my opinions on the matter.
Plus, imagine how dull the podpanel would be if everyone just agreed with each other :)
Yes but you have to understand the special interest groups they have to consider. The teams want big wings because sponsors love them. The cars would look far better if the rear wings were wider and their chord much narrower. This would make little or no difference to the performance but it would be less attractive to sponsors.
To get good rules or regs you need them to be made by people whose only interest is the result and not all the spcial interest groups. The fact that Tony Purnell now says we won't get more overtaking and oh by the way the teams have clawed back 60% more downforce than we thought shows that they were not focussed solely on solving the problem.
Or that the teams are very, very clever?
true.
i have a recommendation for tony, max and bernie. just leave well alone. don't touch anything ever again. cheers.
Hehehe, that makes me feel better. Thanks :)
THe only reason I use that phrase is because regardless what the FIA, Bernie or anyone else does to the sport I am hooked. In general I consider myself to be a dicerning person but motor racing refuses to give me any control.
ah i see, well in that case i agree with you :D
It spilled ove into things like the nonsense at Hungary. You could argue that it all started because the FIA refused to ban Ferrari's illegal car before Melbourne.
It's about winning
Yes but you know up front the teams are clever so if you want to design a set of rules that will mean the cars will have 50% of the previous season's downforce you draw up the regs you think you need to give 25% and you know the teams will claw back a chunk of it.
With the people we have in control of the sport right now, and the people who might take over in the future, there's always going to be controversy and some extreme disagreement, which leads to events such as the Indy-farce. It's something we're having to get used to. I think it shows the strength of F1 that such controversy can take place, and the reputation of the sport will still be high enough to attract millions of viewers to one channel for two hours. The racing is what matters, and the racing must be kept to as high a standard as possible.
:D
No Steven. Old Spa was the greatest of the great tracks and from 1907 to 1983, when Spa returned what happened to the other tracks? All the other old great tracks that could hold a candle to teh modified Spa where gone too.
Where is Mosport - The Mini-Nordschleife? Replaced with that drive in the park that is Montreal.
Where is the Glen? Gone replaced by well, disaters expect for Long Beach.
Mexico City? Gone.
Zandvoort? All the plain Janes got sick and tried of the sand blowing in their eyes and left. Tarzan go too!
The Osterreichring? Replaced by the Ostrichring, er I mean A1 ring...
Clermont-Ferrand (France) has been replaced by a shaggy dog!
The current Nurburgring was an add-on make work project to the Nordschleife
Monza has chicanes.
Hell, even Monaco lost it primary passing place.
With all these crappy other changes, No wonder everybody atill loves Spa.
Loving this thread guys! Thanks again to all those involved with the podpanel - it was loads of fun and well worth it even with the 'hiccups'!
Personally my view on 2009 is that we will get used to how the cars look and if it improves the issue of trying to follow cars and not lose all aero grip then I am fine with it.
another Schumacher song
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